The Two Johns Get It Wrong (Again)

Woodburys want districts in town

By John Sullivan
May 16, 2007Time Herald-Record

Woodbury — Woodbury village officials have agreed with their town counterparts to seek special state legislation to allow water and sewer districts to return to town jurisdiction.

The move would avoid what Supervisor John Burke has said would be the unnecessary cost to taxpayers of $215,000 for the severance pay of about 12 unionized employees from the districts and the building department.

The severance costs are part of an agreement with the unions requiring the town to pay workers their accumulated vacation and sick time upon leaving town employment, Burke said.

State law requires the water and sewer districts to dissolve and re-form under the jurisdiction of the village, which encompasses all of the town, except for its portion of the Village of Harriman.

Mayor Stephanie Berean-Weeks said the union expressed a willingness to reach an agreement to avoid the added costs. Nonetheless, she said, the village is cooperating with trying to return the districts to the town.

The water and sewer districts will remain in the village until the special legislation passes, at which time, the village will hand back any collected fees to the town, Berean-Weeks said.

The agreement comes after the recent finalization of the village budget, which asks taxpayers to foot $811,070 of a $1.7 million general fund. Village officials reduced by $4,000 the salary of clerk Desiree Potvin, who initially expected to receive $24,000, and applied $3,500 toward a village Web site and $500 toward a deputy clerk for Potvin.

The budget's final tax rate, which is scheduled to go into effect June 1, is $1.39 per $1,000 of assessed value.

OK, so the article, using Burke as a source, seems to say that we need the special legislation to avoid the $215,000 payout to deal with accumulated sick time and vacation days.

Sullivan's last article on this subject, also quoting Burke, also said that the town was going to have to come up with the money for the payout.

And that's not the case.

Yes, we would need special legislation if we want to keep the Water/Sewer Department with the town. That's true.

But even if the Department moves to the Village, there is already an agreement in place for the Village to assume the contractural obligations to the workers so that they can hold onto their seniority and their accumulated sick time and vacation time.

Sullivan almost, sorta, kinda, nearly says this in the fifth paragraph, but he makes it clear as mud.

When Berean-Weeks told him that the agreement was in place he should have checked that out, found that that was correct and then dumped the whole lead-in suggesting that the $215,000 payout was hanging over Woodbury's head.

But what fun would that have been?

Hey, Sullivan, eventually you might figure out that John Burke is not the most reliable source of information.

Putting The Sue In Sewage

KJ prepares lawsuit to cover Moodna area

By Chris McKenna

May 15, 2007
Times Herald-Record

Goshen — Seven towns and villages could soon be drawn into a court fight over the use of new capacity at the expanded Orange County sewage treatment plant in Harriman.

Kiryas Joel brought the lawsuit this year to stop the county from selling capacity to the so-called Moodna communities — a handful of municipalities outside the county sewer district that pay to use the plant.

The suit revolves around a recent $26 million expansion of the sewer plant. Kiryas Joel contends the county had no right to sell new space to the Moodna communities and not offer space to Kiryas Joel; the county argues the municipalities' contract entitled them to a share.

Kiryas Joel sued only the county at first, but it filed papers that would bring the Towns of Monroe, Woodbury, Chester and Blooming Grove and the Village of Chester into the case. Also named are the new Villages of Woodbury and South Blooming Grove.

Kiryas Joel Administrator Gedalye Szegedin said last week that the village doesn't want to sue its neighbors, but might have to because the county has argued that the Moodna communities are "necessary parties."

"We don't believe that we should be in court with those communities," he said.

County Attorney David Darwin countered that the other towns have a "direct interest in the outcome of this litigation" and pointed out that several have filed court papers supporting the county.

The county has asked state Supreme Court Justice Joseph Owen to dismiss the suit for failing to name the Moodna communities as respondents.

Kiryas Joel's new papers would correct that problem — and propel the other towns and villages into court — if the judge agrees.

If Owen disagrees, Kiryas Joel will withdraw the new papers, Szegedin said.

skool bord elegshun

Time to vote on for school board members.

Don't know who they are?

Here's some information: http://www.strausnews.com/photo_news/

Still don't have a clue. Then go down to the Public School (Route 32, across from Woodbury Common, before 9 PM tonight). Sign in to vote. And then don't vote.

At least they'll know that you cared enough to show up.

Hollywouldn't

A momentary aside.

The MPAA, the folks who rate movies, have announced that they will now consider cigarette smoking in a movie as one factor in determining whether a film gets an "R" rating instead of a PG-13.

Why stop there?

How about portioln size? If a film character eats a meal with too many calories, or fats, or not not enough vegetables - shouldn't that be a factor also.

And what about Characters who leave the toilet seat up? Or jay walk? Or go to bed without brushing their teeth? Or leave a light on when they leave a room? Or undertip?

The movies have a powerful influence on our children, so shouldn't every bad act, every anti-social deed, every step away from the ideal path be noted and weighed?

What The Uncle Understands To Be So

Some basic facts (as I understand them)

1.Under existing state law the Village must take over the ZBA and the Planning Board on June First and the Sewer and Water Department on January First.

2. The Village is not required to take over the Building Department.

2 A. It is possible for the the State to pass special legislation allowing the Town to keep the Sewer and Water department. It is not certain that this will happen.

2 B. The more that the Village leaves in the Town's hands, the harder it is to explain why four fifths of those who voted chose to form a village in the first place. The more that transfers over to the Village the more that we will have to untangle when we try to undo the Village.

2 C. Civil Service law allows the Village to assume the Town's contracts with the workers in departments that transfer over so that the workers would continue with no change - same seniority, same salary, same accrued vacation and sick time, etc. But for this to happen the Union has to agree.

3. The Union has, so far, not discussed this with the Town or the Village.

4. If there is no agreement with the Union and there is no special legislation than the employees whose departments transfer from the Town to the Village must take (or lose) all accrued sick and vacation time before the turnover dates or (if they are eligible) take lump-sum payments for that accrued time. This would hit the Town with a big pay-out and force workers to use the time or take the pay-out. Many workers don't want to take the cash or the time now (rather than at retirement) because of the heavier tax bite or because they could use the time as terminal leave at the end of their careers.

The Uncle would like to know where the hell is the Union.

And

If we are going to ask the Legislature to do anything, the number one request should be to change village law and annexation law so that no community needs to make what should be purely internal decisions based on the fear of external factors (yeah, yeah, yeah, like the whims of Messers Szegedin and Weider).

What's Wrong With This Picture?

Obviously, the problem here is very subtle.

Now try with this - some parts may be wrong, some may be a little off, some unclear and some dead on target - your assignment is to tell which parts are which (to help things along the Uncle has numbered the paragraphs):

Opinion (Times Herald Record)
The Woodburys get more costly

1) In August, a news story about the vote to create a Village of Woodbury atop the Town of Woodbury explained that "the central question for many people going to the polls on Thursday is whether turning most of Woodbury into one big village would prevent Kiryas Joel from seizing its western reaches and allowing more high-density housing."

2) The answer, then as now, is no. While the creation of this dual government may have made one route to high-density housing more difficult, it did not and could not, by law, prevent what most voters feared.

3) Now, it turns out that the residents of this dual form of government are going to pay dual taxes as well and at a much higher clip than promised.

4) Isn't that always the problem when people panic and are inclined to believe anything that promises to deliver them from the things they fear?

5) At the time of the vote, which approved creation of the dual governments by an overwhelming vote of 2,092-583, there were clear indications that no matter how well the legal strategy worked to prevent annexation or other incursions of people who wanted to re-create the housing profile of Kiryas Joel, the costs and complexity would not be too heavy.

6) Last week, we learned just how heavy they will be. Instead of the promised extra annual budget cost of $150,000 or so, the bill will be about a half-million dollars. And that does not include about a quarter-million dollars in one-time costs to set up the new government. Instead of an increase in taxes of about $100 a year, the increase is now projected to be $488 a year. Instead of a part-time clerk at $7,500, there is an extra $24,000 for the town clerk to take on the extra duties.

7) Proponents of the dual government will say that there are ways to reduce those costs, perhaps with lower town expenses, and lower town taxes, if the village takes over town services. It is easy to understand how people who believed first the promise that their vote would provide protection that it never could and second the promise that it would not cost that much would be willing to suspend disbelief one more time and believe that those costs will come down in the future, leaving the town and village to operate at only a slightly higher cost than the town did alone.

8) They also will have to believe that the creation of two governing boards will not result in competition and even more expense as factions within Woodbury — the same factions that have been at odds over several development proposals that had nothing to do with Kiryas Joel or with plans that remotely approached that density of building — seek out friendly treatment. The myth that the village would adopt the zoning of the town is still alive and still could become reality. If it does not, then future development proposals within Woodbury could be even more divisive and even harder to control.

9) With the exception of the people with higher property taxes, chances are there will never be a full accounting of what costs more, what costs less and what efficiencies fell victim to the forces of politics and bureaucracy.

10) If there is a benefit so far, it might be in the example this should set for others who rush to an untested and overhyped solution to an ill-defined problem. The truth is, neighboring governments can go only so far in controlling the activities of their neighbors.

11) Perhaps this will work out for those who feared a mini-Kiryas Joel, or several of them, from popping up within the borders of the Town of Woodbury. The people who want to promote that form of development might have to target other land in a different direction. But as a letter writer pointed out shortly after the vote last summer, one community cannot control the activities in another. County legislators denied a request by Kiryas Joel to put a water tower on land in a county park, so the village bought land right next door to put in the tower it wanted.

12) As an editorial before the vote warned, adding a village to a town would "create a competition between town and village officials over who controls what" and "certainly cost more in taxes than proponents of the plan say, because elected officials always seem to find a need for new jobs and ways to spend money."

13) So far, that appears to be the case. The editorial also warned that any chance of negotiating with Kiryas Joel and developers would be much more difficult with two Woodburys than with one. While that has yet to happen, it is only a matter of time, and with the extra costs as a guide, it seems safe to predict that the two governments will have less, not more, power to control the destiny of the Woodburys.

Village Doons - The Stirrings of the Ralphlings

So the Village Board met and, despite the Streetbarwl Named Desiree going on at this little out of the way blog, things were rather tame (Thank The Good Lord).

There was a public hearing on the proposed budget (well, part of a public hearing - it seems the proper time or place or spelling wasn't in the announcement and so there has to be a do-over next week, the 18th, 7:30 at Village Hall - aka the Highland Mills Fire House ).

The budget for the first full year (June 1st thru May 31st) was presented and the Uncle nodded off - so we'll have to do a follow up with that info.

Rich Cataggio, was the only one who brought up the great Desiree debate. But a small handful of the Ralphlings were heard from. The Rump Roast, the Anklebiter and Ben Meyers (too colorless to have earned much of a nickname) all took turns at the mike. Nothing terribly dramatic - it seems that they were just warming up their vocal chords for the opera yet to come.

Dick Manley popped up too - I note this only because when I hear his name I can't help but think about the fact that it is a synonym for Penis Macho.

Neither Ralph nor the Pieman were in evidence - probably saving themselves for a more dramatic entrance if (make that "when") things start to heat up.

And, as a side note, Henry Hank (the Lord of the Dance) has a "For Sale" sign up. Make of that what you will.

The Pieman's Pathways

In response to: "Anonymous said... How do you get traffic from the Commons to the thru-way without building on wet lands? " the Pieman has sent the these two pix:

Huzzah!

Gee.

The OCEAN Fund Raising Drive has passed the $100 mark.

After only two weeks of begging and nagging four people in Woodbury have contributed to keep OCEAN going.

Wow!







Just in case anyone else is moved to help out, checks made out to "The SOCA Group" can be sent to OCEAN/ 320 County Route 105 / Highland Mills, NY 10930.

While The Pieman Waits

Well, so far, we've managed to raise $90.25 for OCEAN.

That's really shameful.

But, it seems that the Pieman is still at work on Woodbury issues.

Here is what he just emailed to me - his suggestion for how to deal with the continual traffic tie-ups at the Thruway-6-17-32-Woodbury Common interchange.

(by the way - you too can email the Uncle at cuzzincookie@hotmail.com )


1, Build rotaries just north of Commerce and just south of Buena Vista
2. Lower speed limit to 20 MPH.
3. Remove all traffic lights.
4. No left turns.
5. 4 or 5 lanes each direction - outer two are merge lanes.
6. Post "Lane Changes Must Be Signaled" and "You Must Yield To Cars Signaling Lane Change"






Even with a low speed (20 MPH) and merge lanes, because the flow will be continual without any traffic lights, traffic should move faster than it does now.

So, does this make sense?