Sunday, June 19, 2011

'f Only

Federal case could dissolve Kiryas Joel
Lawsuit claims village violates Constitution
By Chris Mckenna
Times Herald-Record
Published: 2:00 AM - 06/19/11

Kiryas Joel dissidents rolled the ultimate grenade into their enemies' tent last week with a federal lawsuit questioning the very existence of the village that the Satmar Hasidic community created 34 years ago.

Their argument — laid out by civil-rights attorney Michael Sussman and sharply disputed by village leaders and their supporters — is that the village discriminates against them because of religious differences, and that public and religious authority are so entwined in Kiryas Joel that it violates the constitutional separation of church and state.

But even if the plaintiffs prove they've been thwarted and unfairly treated as they allege, a big question is whether a judge would ever order the drastic remedy they proposed: dismantling the Village of Kiryas Joel.

The answer depends on whom you ask.

Ralph Stein, a Pace Law School professor who teaches constitutional law, sees no chance of that happening, based on what he read in the court complaint.

"As far as I'm concerned, it's a political polemic," Stein said. "It doesn't provide a legal basis for which the relief can be provided."

If the allegations are true, Stein said, what the dissidents are complaining about amounts to political corruption no different than Tammany Hall-style tactics, even if cloaked in religious garb. And corruption, he said, is no reason to dismantle a municipality.

If it were, Stein said, "I can't imagine how many times places like Boston, New York and Chicago would have been dissolved."

But Nomi Stolzenberg, a University of Southern California law professor who's co-writing a book on Kiryas Joel, argues that a political in-group abusing power for non-religious reasons is different under constitutional law than a "religious in-group that uses political power to suppress religious dissenters."

"Whether that in fact is what's going on in Kiryas Joel remains to be proved," she said. "But the idea that a religious group could capture political power and abuse its power by discriminating against groups that don't adhere to the beliefs of the dominant group — that is a very specific danger that the religion clauses were designed to combat."

Stolzenberg contends the case could hinge on which of two constitutional readings the judge uses.

The prevailing approach would likely find that the institutions of church and state are separate in Kiryas Joel, and therefore, permissible, she said. But a competing doctrine — she calls it the "get real" approach — might take a less lenient view.

"It's actually hard to predict how the federal judges are going to react to this," she said.

The dissidents' lawsuit tries to show unequal treatment in law enforcement, tax exemptions, elections and other areas through a series of examples. Village leaders say the claims have no merit, and insist they provide services to all residents without discrimination.

Joseph Waldman, a plaintiff in the case and a longtime thorn in the side of the village's leadership, brought a similar case in 1997 to try to get the village dissolved. A federal judge and then an appeals-court panel rejected his demand — but strictly because most of his allegations had just been tried in two previous lawsuits.

The appeals-court judges wrote that Waldman's claims didn't "establish the sort of pervasive and otherwise irremediable entanglement between church and state that would justify a drastic remedy like the dissolution of the village."

But they added: "All this is not to say that a series of future actions evincing an enduring and all-encompassing domination of the Village government by the Congregation could not at some point suffice to create a new cause of action for the dissolution of the village."

cmckenna@th-record.com


city of rajneeshpuram

One of the few precedents for the constitutional challenge Kiryas Joel dissidents have brought against their village is a 1983 case involving Rajneeshpuram, a religious enclave incorporated as a city in Oregon the previous year.

The community started in 1981, when followers of a spiritual leader named Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh bought a huge ranch in Wasco County. Within only three years, their commune grew into a city of 7,000 with its own police and fire departments, businesses and bus system.

By that time, the state had sued Rajneeshpuram in federal court, arguing that it had no obligation to recognize the municipal status of a city controlled by a religious organization.

A federal judge ruled in favor of Oregon in 1985. But the decision had little impact on Rajneeshpuram, because state and federal court battles had so depleted the group's resources that the city was soon bankrupt and empty.

61 comments:

Anonymous said...

Is Maria helping Michael Sussman?

Anonymous said...

I heard that Maria has just been appointed the judge to hear the case.
When did she go to law school?

Anonymous said...

KJ senior vs KJ junior. Gotta love it.

Anonymous said...

June 18, 2011
Journal News
Girl's water balloon leads to Spring Valley fracas; 2 arrested

SPRING VALLEY — A dispute that started after an 11-year-old girl hit a van with a water balloon escalated into a fracas
involving 50 men who confronted the
youngster and her family, ending with two of the men being arrested.

The incident in the usually quiet Fletcher Road community brought out police and two village officials. The National
Association for the Advancement of Colored People later condemned the attack on the girl and her family, including her mother,Spring Valley Village Clerk Sherry Scott, who
said she was injured.

The fracas started at 10:58 p.m.
Wednesday when the girl's water balloon hit a van driving down Monsey Boulevard, leading the driver to call an Orthodox
Jewish community assistance organization, called the Chaverim of Rockland, police said.

An estimated 40 to 50 members of the Chaverim patrol group descended on the area, police said.
Before police arrived, the van driver chased the girl, who was protected by her 17-year-old male relative, police said. The
cousin's father and Scott came outside and there was pushing and men milling around the area, police said. One of the men pushed Scott against a wall. She said she suffered a swollen knee and leg and the man would not let the
teenager and Scott into their apartment.

"They started to push and hit my grandson,who was protecting my daughter," Scott said Friday. "The whole thing was totally unnecessary." Scott said one man shoved her against the wall near the doorway to the apartment
building and cursed at her when she demanded he let her and her family pass. "It was a nightmare," Scott said. "This was uncalled for. The driver should have just
told me my little girl threw a water balloon."

Spring Valley police arrested two men, Morris Jacobowitz, 32, of 2 Valley View Terrace, Spring Valley, and Solomon E. Simkowitz, 40, of 139 Route 306, Wesley Hills. Police charged Jacobowitz with second-degree reckless endangerment and Simkowitz with second-degree unlawful imprisonment and second-degree harassment involving Scott, Detective Sgt. James Noble said. The incident is under investigation and more charges are possible, including charges of assaulting Scott, police said.

Police Chief Paul Modica said the van driver who called in the Chaverim left before police arrived, so police have no complaint from him or statement.

"I don't think there were any racial or religious epithets from either end," Modica said. "The water balloon incident got way out of hand. This was about a stupid water balloon."

Wilbur Aldridge of the NAACP called the incident "despicable."

"Their action makes no sense whatsoever unless there's some deep-seated resentment," he said.

Aldridge said the NAACP will monitor what happens next with the case.

Scott said Spring Valley Trustee Joseph Gross came to the scene and asked her not to pursue charges. Scott said Gross told her the Chaverim would handle the matter internally. She said Mayor Noramie Jasmin supported her decision.

Gross didn't return phone calls for comment on Friday."I am making a statement" by going to the police, Scott said. "Everybody needs to learn how to live together. Spring Valley belongs to all of us."


AND WOODBURY THINKS THEY HAVE PROBLEMS!!!

Anonymous said...

Aren't they so peaceful?

Anonymous said...

Why do reporters gloss over their identity? The NY Times, Journal News and others, always refer to them as "Orthodox". They are not "Orthodox", they are Hasidism. Orthodox Jews do not act this way.

Anonymous said...

This is good stuff, keep spreading all the hate around it will work real good against us when our lawsuit comes around. idots!

Anonymous said...

Who said anything about hate. Moron

Anonymous said...

New Square is not satmar.

Anonymous said...

Why would the postings on this site be part of a lawsuit? Is the mayor or the supervisor posting here?

Anonymous said...

The supervisor doesn't know what a computer is so we can rule him out.

Anonymous said...

Did anyone notice that the Republicans have two town board candidates and no one for supervisor?
Another deal between John B and his buddy Ralph C!!!!

Anonymous said...

Who are the two Republican Town Board candidates?

Anonymous said...

Oh? no supervisor candidate, Ralph? Just another deal with your buddy John?

Anonymous said...

Woodbury Firecracker Festival, a great success and fun for everyone!!!
Thanks to everyone who made it all happen.

Anonymous said...

A good time had by all? What? all 10 of the people I saw when I was there.

Anonymous said...

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

How about a thread on the two new council guys?

Anonymous said...

What about the Highway Superintendent election. I heard that Pete Stabiles own men are against him. Thats probably why his own employee Rob Weyant is running against him. I've had several conversations with Pete about issues on my road and water problems. And every time he came by, there was a million reasons why he couldn't do the work. He would go on and on about other things that had nothing to do with me. After two years, I finally got the drainage problem taken care of, which took about 2 hours, but only after having to go to the Town Supervisor. I know i'm not the only one who has had this type of experience with Pete. So good luck this election getting my vote.

Anonymous said...

Who are the two Republican Town Board candidates?

Anonymous said...

Tim Arone - GOP Committee Member. Is he a Carusoite?

Lyn Prestia - Couldn't win the school board so she's trying again.

Throw in Amidee Tebo Haviland III and Carlton Levine and we're left wondering why anyone will bother turning out to vote this November.

Anonymous said...

Better than being a Queenen/Hunterite. They'll tax you to death and then give you up to the developers so we can look like NYC in less than a decade.

Anonymous said...

Caruso created the village so blame him for any taxes that come about from it. Oh and he LIED about everything ($1 to run it, fire district staying with town, etc) leading up to the vote.

Please, don't try and compare him with anyone else.

Anonymous said...

The Reps planning on getting the word out as to who their neophyte candidates are...or is it just another classic Ralph move to pacify his own party as he bends over for the Dems?

Anonymous said...

its a classic Ralph move and notice no supervisor candidate so John is a shoe-in.

Also heard that "Quick Tax Queenan" wants to run for Supervisor next time so he can raise the town taxes too!!!

Anonymous said...

If the Reps win both seats we have a totally split board 2-2-1. Might not be the worst thing.

Anonymous said...

Any truth to the rumor that the village mayor wants to dissolve the planning board? Or that he is at least telling them what to approve or not approve?

Anonymous said...

You can't dissolve a planning board. You can tell whoever you heard that from that he/she is an idiot.

Anonymous said...

Oh yes, you can dissolve a planning board in a village. Don't you read the paper? Washintonville just dissolved their planning board AND their Ethic board.

So who's the idiot?

Anonymous said...

Why would the mayor get rid of the planning board?

Anonymous said...

Looks like Ralph lost the voter fraud case.

According to the DA, it is very difficult to prove voter fraud.

I guess the DA couldn't look up the voter registration records in Brooklyn to see if the people were also registered there too.

Yeah that must be really difficult to do.

Keep trying Ralph!!!

Anonymous said...

Every single one of the alleged fraudulent voters was a DEMOCRAT. Ralph Caruso challenged these people as CAMPAIGN MANAGER for REPUBLICAN Bill Larkin.

Purely political - save your praise for someone else.

Anonymous said...

Maybe they should save their praise for the above reproach Mayor of Woodbury.

Anonymous said...

looks like Ralph got reemed on the editorial page of the paper today.

Anonymous said...

Most of the politicians local, county and state will do NOTHING about voter fraud because they want that block vote!

Time to vote everyone out!!!

Anonymous said...

Has any one heard that the Woodbury Commons is going to expand again?

Anonymous said...

The Commons cannot expand again. So why would anyone be talking about it?

Anonymous said...

There is some talk about the commons expanding something and that the village board is considering it. Apparently the Mayor has already met with people from the commons to discuss it!!!

Anonymous said...

where would they go -- theres no room left

Anonymous said...

Rumors: Possible Dome Structure in 2019There have been several rumors relating to the Woodbury Common Premium Outlets building a dome structure that would encompass the entire mall and the surrounding roads. This structure would be free from rain/sleet/snow (a continuous naturally occurring problem in outdoor malls) and have a lighting system similar to those in baseball stadiums for their night games. The complex would also then be able to be open 24/7 which is the current thought process on the future of the mall. Although it is expected to cost over $300 Million USD, the Woodbury Common Premium Outlets would receive additional revenue from its new transition to a 24 hour shopping center.

Anonymous said...

And what does the Town/Village get out of this? Besides the traffic headaches and increase in crime,that is.

Anonymous said...

Don't you know that Mike Queenan is working hard to be "business friendly" in Woodbury. So what if the town loses its character; he'll sell more real estate.

Anonymous said...

I heard that they want to built a multi-story parking lot. With Queenan in charge, Rt. 32 will look like RT 59 in no time.

I don't mind supporting local businesses but this is ridiculous!

What do we get out of it? NOTHING!!!!

Anonymous said...

Mike is more than "business-friendly" he is actively pro business, even if it is bad for Woodbury. Makes you wonder what he is getting out of it.

Anonymous said...

and what his pals are getting out of it too! I mean, just watch Maria during her meetings. I don't think she could kiss the asses of developers anymore that she does.

Anonymous said...

I was going to argue with the previous poster about being a rumor starter but then I watched some of the meetings.

And it is so obvious. And they will get away with it.

Does everyone in public office today do it only for their own good? Where are the honest people who go into it for the idea of helping their community?

Anonymous said...

Why is it that every time some one is elected or appointed to a position they are automatically "getting something" or being paid off or benefitting personally in some way. They all work full time and then have to put up with morons like you. They ARE there trying to do the best for the town. Go to a meeting and find out.Talk to them. If any one who posts here has solid evidence of illegal activity, outside of rumor, hearsay, or the bull shit that goes on here, bring it forward. If not, then shut the fuck up. You're not helping.

Anonymous said...

A little defensive aren't we?

The previous poster said they watched the meeting on TV (isn't that the purpose?) and said it looks like some are showing favoritism to developers. I know that I am going to keep a closer eye on these meeting from now on.

Maybe you are upset because you're just doing what you are told but not getting a piece of the action!!!

Anonymous said...

Seems to be a big difference in the way the P/B and Z/B operate.

Anonymous said...

The ZB is led by someone who knows what they are doing

Anonymous said...

Who is the person in charge of the zoning board and why do you think they are better than the person in charge of the planning board?

If you can't back up your statements with some facts then shut the hell up!

Anonymous said...

Who said anything about being "better than"?

Anonymous said...

What is the deal about these boards? are they doing something wrong? or stupid?

Anonymous said...

Yes, they are doing both!!!! But since nobody cares why even try to do something about it?

Leave the village mayor and his buddies alone so they can sell Woodbury down the river to the developers!!!!

Anonymous said...

Is Swiller still alive?

Anonymous said...

Since when did Caruso become so concerned about open government? What a joke.

Anonymous said...

I've been seeing some election signs around Town that say Vote Weyant, (and I certainly will). Whats interesting is that Pete Stables own employees have them on their lawn. Boy Mr. Highway Super...thats not much of a glowing review.

Anonymous said...

Theres a ridiculous website created by Pete Stable called do not elect rob weyant http://www.donotelectrobweyant.com

it seems like the Highway Super is grasping at straws. I dont know who is blogging on this site, (most likely Stable using different names), but very wrong information. I can't wait for a debate.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps the driving record of a certain incumbent should be examined a little more closely???

Anonymous said...

I just went to the stupid web site. It says that Rob ran away when the hurricane hit. How ridiculous. The man was on a family vacation planned months in advanced. Mr. Stabile, do you know how stupid you sound?

Anonymous said...

Uncle Betty, can you start a topic about the issue being discussed so that people will see it right away?

Anonymous said...

Gee....if Mr. Stabile was so on top of things why did he send his men home before storm was over??? and then received 4 phone calls which he slept though about alarm at highway...unfornately they had to break down to get in...way to go Pete....