It seems that the town board meetings just aren't the hot ticket that they were back when it meant something.
Apparently only half a dozen folks who didn't have to be there showed up (and that's only if you consider Caruso, Swiller, Robin Crouse and Maria Hunter to be there voluntarily - it's more likely that they are acting out of some sort of uncontrollable compulsion).
Afterwards, our spies spotted Ralph and Donnelly huddled together in Ralph's car. While collusion is always possible, The Uncle thinks that they were probably just necking.
Maria Hunter has sick need to be involved in everything. Apparently she "thinks" she very important. And whenever you see Maria, your sure to see Robin following along behind. Caruso, well he's just pimple in the seat at Town Hall.
Just for the record, dont expect me to meet you out in the car for any necking or anything else for that matter after Village Board meetings, unless it turns out that your a cute, blonde, say 5'6-5'8, preferably Irish then we can see what happens.
We'll leave the kinky boy on boy action to Ralph and Bob...ughhh just the thought makes me want to vomit!!!
Yours,
Future Village Trustee Anonymous 19
VOTE Anonymous No. 19 VILLAGE TRUSTEE Because, maybe, one day we will do better.
To the previous anon, (ther are so many). I'm don't believe there are good or bad guys. They are all polititians. That in itself is worse than being a good or bad guy. Al they worry about is themselves, weather rebublican or democrat. They shake hands one day, and want to kill each other the next. They fight amongst themselves, and drag everyone else into it. And this blog proves it. If i'm not mistaken, most of the sitting board were all cozy with Ralph once upon a time, (don't ask me why). And now they all point fingers at each other saying "he's the bay guy" or "shes the bad girl". And the next thing you know they'll all be pal again, because they need something from the other one. It goes around and around. It always has and it always will. They all belong to every committee the Town has to offer. The same old blank faces, like Ralph C, Maria H, Mike Q, Gerri G, Mike A. I don't care what poplitical faction someone belongs to, but cut the crap already with the "i'm better than they are" and i'm right and thet are wrong shit.
Hey unbias, what have YOU ever done. Give us a break!!!!!!!! At least all the people you mentioned volunteers for something. Please do not give us the "I don't have time" crap. Nobody has the time but somehow these people do it.
Now lets talk about Ralph Caruso and George Peterson running for the Village Board. I heard from a very reliable source that Ralph will run for Mayor and George Peterson will run for Trustee. Poor Ralph, he honestly believes that everybody loves him because he formed the Woodbury Preservation Committee. Well I voted for the village for the sole reason I did not want another village to form within our town. I did NOT vote for the village because I like or trust Ralph Caruso. The very sad thing is that many feel the same way I do. I live in an area where we have an HOA, and we all agreed to vote for the village only because of the fact it prevents a village from forming within a village. We do not like you Raplh and will not vote for you on election day. Can't you see, we do not want you running our town (village), not on a local level and not on a county level. Why don't you look how badly you lost to Donnery. She beat you 2 to 1 even in the district you live in. That means your neighbors DID NOT VOTE FOR YOU. What else can the people in Woodbury do to make you go away! We have seen the way you bully people. I for one am glad the town board members finally had the balls to say to you enough is enough. Now that you have lost total control of the board members, you try to gain it back by running for mayor! I can not wait until out next HOA meeting. I will have the members rollong on the floor. And as for Peterson, grow up and think for yourself. I've seen you in action on the ZBA. when are you going have a mind of your own? Sorry, but I will not vote for a puppet.
As the Uncle mentioned not that long ago, George Pedersen says: "you, with your vote in overwhelming numbers, spoke loud and clear that zoning and master plan issues should be decided by vote."
First, who the #$%@# is he to say why other people voted as they did?
Second, NEW YORK STATE LAW FORBIDS DECIDING ZONING BY REFERENDUM!
It seems that like Bart Bloom and his inability to grasp that villages can annex from villages, Pedersen has some sort of mental block against reality.
Oh come come, everyone knows Swiller, Maria H. and Robin C. Have no home life and the two so call ladies have husbands that are glad they are never never HOME
Ralph Caruso is running for Mayor!!!???...oh god thanks..i needed a good laugh today...hahahahah...wow..i cant wait for this ass kicking to take place...Ralph do you just enjoy getting the shit kicked out of you?? If so we can just make it simple and kick your ass out of this town.
I have done alot of voulenteer work, and i'm a voulenteer as we speak. I'd just like to see some new people, thats all. And on another subject, all that the people on this site do is talk about Ralph, Ralph, Ralph. Why do you give a crap what he says or does or thinks, or lies about. Every time you bring him up you give him more and more power to say, "look I have them all scared". They can't stop thinking about me! Ignore him! Even now you got me talking about him. People, give out information that is correct, and the hell with the rest. Get in peoples faces (the way "HE" does) and explain whats happening in our Town. Don't stoop to a lowlifes level.
The bashing of Ralph on this site makes him weaker NOT STRONGER!!
There used to be a time when people feared Ralph. This site provides an anonymous ave for people to feel they can speak out...it also leads to people feeling comfortable enough to just eventually speak out without the secrecy of this site.
Ralph thinks he is strong now becuase he got this village though. The village didnt pass becuase of Ralph. It passed becuase of fear of KJ.
Your already seeing people on here saying...i voted for the village...but i sure as hell am not voting for Ralph or any of his people.
The bashing of Ralph on this site makes him weaker NOT STRONGER!!
There used to be a time when people feared Ralph. This site provides an anonymous ave for people to feel they can speak out...it also leads to people feeling comfortable enough to just eventually speak out without the secrecy of this site.
Ralph thinks he is strong now becuase he got this village though. The village didnt pass becuase of Ralph. It passed becuase of fear of KJ.
Your already seeing people on here saying...i voted for the village...but i sure as hell am not voting for Ralph or any of his people.
It's illegal to have a referendum on zoning laws in NY?? Remember that was Laburnt's and tiny Krause's statement. Take that with a big dose of castor oil. However, let's say it's true, then NY should get with the times. Other states do allow permissive referendum when it comes to zoning laws. Maine is a prime example.
If it were done here, there would be good chance that this whole zoning issue would be gone.
It amazes me that when frustrated, certain authors on this site revert to name calling and insults, especially you, Curious George. For your information,Mr. Liberth obviously made it through law school, and is a successful attorney, so I am sure he is somewhat intelligent.I might also add, he was hand-picked by Ralph Caruso and Marty Stanise to be the attorney for the Town. Obviously Mr. Liberth wised up, as did most of the current Town Board members, and cut the apron strings from Ralph. As for Mrs. Crouse, she is an extremely intelligent and compassionate person, who is as genuine as they come in her defense of our wonderful Town. She has no political agenda. She has been diligent in her efforts to see that procedure and policy are adhered to, and probably possesses more knowledge and history of the Town of Woodbury in her pinky as you and all your cohorts in your feeble (not an insult, just an observation) little brains. I applaud Richard Liberth for speaking the truth, and Robin Crouse for being an honest and devoted protector of our Town. Although both individuals have probably spent countless hours researching, documenting,etc in order to get HONEST answers to the residents of this town, please remember that Mrs. Crouse does NOT get paid a dime. SHE does it GRATIS, and ALWAYS gives the facts, even when they may not be exactly what all residents want to hear. So, Curious George, you think that you can rally your troops and get NY to change THEIR laws, and allow a permissive referendum, then by all means, GO FOR IT...just do it on YOUR OWN DIME, and NOT with my tax dollars that Ralph plans on stealing through the creation of the Village!!!!
What's a friendly annexation ? Oh I know the answer. That's when KJ petitions the town for our land and Lorraine Mcneil, Gerry Genzaro, Mike Queenan and Mike Aranawitz all vote yes and John Buke votes no.
NEW YORK TIMES Monday, August 28, 2006 Reverberations of a Baby Boom August 27, 2006 Reverberations of a Baby Boom By FERNANDA SANTOS KIRYAS JOEL, N.Y., Aug. 22 — As the administrator of this village in southern Orange County, Gedalye Szegedin knows that much of his job revolves around a simple equation: the number of girls who get married is roughly equal to the number of new homes this community will need to accommodate its rapid growth.
Last year, Mr. Szegedin oversaw the construction of 200 houses and apartments, mostly on the outer-lying lots along the eastern edge of this 1.1-square-mile community, an ultra-Orthodox Jewish enclave about 60 miles north of Midtown Manhattan. By the end of this year, he said, the village will most likely have 300 new homes.
“There are three religious tenets that drive our growth: our women don’t use birth control, they get married young and after they get married, they stay in Kiryas Joel and start a family,” Mr. Szegedin said.
“Our growth comes simply from the fact that our families have a lot of babies,” he added, “and we need to build homes to respond to the needs of our community.”
But developable land is a finite resource here, and not much of it is left. And as Kiryas Joel pushes up against its borders, nearby neighbors in the towns of Blooming Grove and Woodbury are moving aggressively to prevent the community from expanding by incorporating into villages of their own.
“We still have huge tracts of open land in Woodbury, and we want to keep it that way,” said Woodbury’s supervisor, John P. Burke, who grew up in the Bronx and moved to Orange County in 1969.
“We want to make sure that no outside community is able to completely transform the character and the look of our town,” he said. “If we need a village to do that, so be it.”
Kiryas Joel’s population leaped to 18,300 last year from 13,100 in 2000 and 7,400 in 1990, making it one of the fastest growing places in the state, according to the most recent estimates by the Census Bureau. For two years, developers and local officials have been searching for private parcels in surrounding communities, hoping to expand the village through annexation for the third time since it was incorporated in 1977 as an offshoot of the Satmar Hasidic sect of Williamsburg, Brooklyn.
After its incorporation, most of the growth was driven by migration from New York City. But now, new arrivals are mostly babies and grooms coming to marry one of the local women.
Worried residents in Blooming Grove, which lies northwest of here, and Woodbury, which lies east, have voted overwhelmingly in the past two months to approve the creation of two new villages. State law allows villages to be established within towns and to set their own zoning regulations, and area officials say the new villages would be able to restrict the multifamily, high-density building that predominates in Kiryas Joel.
Many of the families in those towns also fled the crowded streets of New York City, moving here for the cleaner air, the safer communities and the open spaces, where the closest neighbor may not be so close.
“We’re hard-working people who decided to move up here to pay less taxes and enjoy the quietness of country,” said Garry Dugan, a retired New York City detective and the president of the South Blooming Grove Homeowners Association, the group that began the drive to create one of the villages.
“It’s a shame that it has come to us and them, but we feel like we had to form a village for no reason other than preserving our quality of life,” said Mr. Dugan, who has lived in Blooming Grove for 26 years. “This has nothing to do with their religion.”
It is not the first time that Kiryas Joel and its neighbors have clashed.
Over the years, there have been disputes — over a water pipeline Kiryas Joel sought to build, for example, and whether the state should pay for a school system for its disabled students. There was also an argument in 1986 when 600 Kiryas Joel boys refused to board school buses driven by women. (The drivers are now all men.)
The Satmar Hasidim share what they call a deep mystical connection to Kiryas Joel. They were led here by their founder, the Grand Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum, who saw in it the ideal place for his followers to raise large families away from the influences of the outside world. Hence the name of the village, which means Town of Joel.
About 3,000 families live here, many of them in boxy wood-frame homes built close to one another, with up to a dozen apartments stacked in four floors.
The village has no parks or public playgrounds, so children play with their colorful plastic toys on small front yards.
A network of sidewalks twirl across the village, so the women, who do not drive, are able to walk to the clinic and supermarket. Baby strollers seem to be everywhere: in the lobbies of buildings, on sidewalks, outside the stores.
“This is a great place to raise our children; it’s easy to keep them away from the distractions of the city,” said Judith Greenfeld, 34, whose family moved here from Williamsburg two decades ago.
All but 3 of her 12 siblings live here.
Mrs. Greenfeld and her husband, Joseph, 35, have five children, three boys and two girls, ages 3 to 13. The median age is 15, compared with 35 for the nation, according to the 2000 census. The village has one of the lowest median ages among communities nationwide with more than 5,000 residents.
The Greenfelds live on a dead-end street, in a third-floor apartment across from a girls’ school. Like most families here, they speak more Yiddish than English and have no radio, computer or television at home. Mr. Greenfeld owns a tile shop in Monroe, just outside the village borders.
His wife helps him run the business, which makes her a rare exception among Kiryas Joel’s women, who are married soon after they graduate from high school, work until they give birth to their second child and then become stay-at-home mothers. The men, meanwhile, board yellow school buses every morning and ride to New York City, to jobs in the diamond district or at B & H, the photo and video store near Herald Square.
Because of the sheer size of the families (the average household here has six people, but it is not uncommon for couples to have 8 or 10 children), and because a vast majority of households subsist on only one salary, 62 percent of the local families live below poverty level and rely heavily on public assistance, which is another sore point among those who live in neighboring communities.
“We just don’t understand why they have to keep pushing their expansionist ideas on us,” said Charles J. Bohan, who is the supervisor of the Town of Blooming Grove and a resident of the new village, named South Blooming Grove.
On Sept. 21, South Blooming Grove will hold its first election for mayor and for a four-member board of trustees. The state must still certify the results of the vote to create the village in Woodbury before elections there can be held.
Mr. Szegedin, Kiryas Joel’s administrator, said his community was not deterred.
"We have several different developers that want to sell land to Kiryas Joel, but if they can’t do it, we can build up,” he said. “We can change our zoning code to allow high-rise apartments. The creation of these villages are not going to stop the growth in the village of Kiryas Joel."
Mrs. Greenfeld agreed.
“People don’t understand the conception of our people, of our religion,” she said. “There’s no government or land or any other authority that can stop us from having babies,” she said while her husband put out a plate of cheese blintzes, strawberries and sour cream.
“If there’s not enough land, families will double up. There’s always going to be room for the new families,” Mrs. Greenfeld said. “And if I have to slice up my apartment in two, I’ll do it, without doubt or hesitation.” posted by Michael Aronowitz at 6:51 AM 0 comments
So, KJ wants to build tall buildings in the sky now??...we'll i propose we hold a referendum and incorporate heaven as a village to maintain the zoning in the sky...Ralph can be Mayor since he already thinks he is god.
Maybe Laburnt broke away from Caruso but his leash is still held on by the "break away" group very tightly. Whenever they want a ruling that goes their way, THEY just tug on the line. As for Krause having an agenda...I'll have to seriously think about that unless trying to get Conroy back in office an agenda..
CG- grow up, and while your at it, watch your back. Slander and libel can wipe out your savings, and those that you consider friends may just be ready to turn you in.
Do you mean Rich LiBerth and Neil Crouse? I suggest to this poster that he or she find out how to spell someones name before posting because I can hardly follow what you are saying. I can only help you spell for so long, then I will throw you to the wolves. Again nobody believes what you say.
I was actually fairly impressed by the NY Times article... looks like they actually did their homework, summed things up pretty well and didn't skew things into a religious discrimination fest. And actually got quotes from MANY sides. Would have been nice if Burke hadn't been the only one speaking for our town, but they clearly made an effort.
Robin Crouse is a truly devoted person... I've watched her at work for over two decades and while she isn't perfect (who is?), I don't see how anyone can challenge her devotion or commitment to this town. Given that she's been doing this longer than nearly ANYONE's been in office, and hasn't gotten a cent for it seems to speak for itself. I haven't always agreed with her, but I respect her deeply on many levels.
32 comments:
It seems that the town board meetings just aren't the hot ticket that they were back when it meant something.
Apparently only half a dozen folks who didn't have to be there showed up (and that's only if you consider Caruso, Swiller, Robin Crouse and Maria Hunter to be there voluntarily - it's more likely that they are acting out of some sort of uncontrollable compulsion).
Afterwards, our spies spotted Ralph and Donnelly huddled together in Ralph's car. While collusion is always possible, The Uncle thinks that they were probably just necking.
The "conceiving process" for the Republicrats is more difficult than first expected...afterall, it is two of the same gender trying to do it!
Maria Hunter has sick need to be involved in everything. Apparently she "thinks" she very important. And whenever you see Maria, your sure to see Robin following along behind. Caruso, well he's just pimple in the seat at Town Hall.
this is new for woodbury...someone who is unbias in their hatread of everyone...this person hates the good guys and ralph.
Future Mayor Uncle Betty:
Just for the record, dont expect me to meet you out in the car for any necking or anything else for that matter after Village Board meetings, unless it turns out that your a cute, blonde, say 5'6-5'8, preferably Irish then we can see what happens.
We'll leave the kinky boy on boy action to Ralph and Bob...ughhh just the thought makes me want to vomit!!!
Yours,
Future Village Trustee Anonymous 19
VOTE
Anonymous No. 19
VILLAGE TRUSTEE
Because, maybe, one day we will do better.
so what are you trying to say that this village thing that ralph made me vote for isnt going to save woodbury?????????
To the previous anon, (ther are so many). I'm don't believe there are good or bad guys. They are all polititians. That in itself is worse than being a good or bad guy. Al they worry about is themselves, weather rebublican or democrat. They shake hands one day, and want to kill each other the next. They fight amongst themselves, and drag everyone else into it. And this blog proves it. If i'm not mistaken, most of the sitting board were all cozy with Ralph once upon a time, (don't ask me why). And now they all point fingers at each other saying "he's the bay guy" or "shes the bad girl". And the next thing you know they'll all be pal again, because they need something from the other one. It goes around and around. It always has and it always will. They all belong to every committee the Town has to offer. The same old blank faces, like Ralph C, Maria H, Mike Q, Gerri G, Mike A. I don't care what poplitical faction someone belongs to, but cut the crap already with the "i'm better than they are" and i'm right and thet are wrong shit.
WOW how insightful
And well typed.
Hey unbias, what have YOU ever done. Give us a break!!!!!!!! At least all the people you mentioned volunteers for something. Please do not give us the "I don't have time" crap. Nobody has the time but somehow these people do it.
Now lets talk about Ralph Caruso and George Peterson running for the Village Board. I heard from a very reliable source that Ralph will run for Mayor and George Peterson will run for Trustee. Poor Ralph, he honestly believes that everybody loves him because he formed the Woodbury Preservation Committee. Well I voted for the village for the sole reason I did not want another village to form within our town. I did NOT vote for the village because I like or trust Ralph Caruso. The very sad thing is that many feel the same way I do. I live in an area where we have an HOA, and we all agreed to vote for the village only because of the fact it prevents a village from forming within a village.
We do not like you Raplh and will not vote for you on election day.
Can't you see, we do not want you running our town (village), not on a local level and not on a county level.
Why don't you look how badly you lost to Donnery. She beat you 2 to 1 even in the district you live in. That means your neighbors DID NOT VOTE FOR YOU. What else can the people in Woodbury do to make you go away!
We have seen the way you bully people. I for one am glad the town board members finally had the balls to say to you enough is enough. Now that you have lost total control of the board members, you try to gain it back by running for mayor! I can not wait until out next HOA meeting. I will have the members rollong on the floor.
And as for Peterson, grow up and think for yourself. I've seen you in action on the ZBA. when are you going have a mind of your own? Sorry, but I will not vote for a puppet.
As the Uncle mentioned not that long ago, George Pedersen says:
"you, with your vote in overwhelming numbers, spoke loud and clear that zoning and master plan issues should be decided by vote."
First, who the #$%@# is he to say why other people voted as they did?
Second, NEW YORK STATE LAW FORBIDS DECIDING ZONING BY REFERENDUM!
It seems that like Bart Bloom and his inability to grasp that villages can annex from villages, Pedersen has some sort of mental block against reality.
Yes, that does make him the perfect Ralphling.
Oh come come, everyone knows Swiller, Maria H. and Robin C.
Have no home life and the two so
call ladies have husbands that are
glad they are never never HOME
Ralph Caruso is running for Mayor!!!???...oh god thanks..i needed a good laugh today...hahahahah...wow..i cant wait for this ass kicking to take place...Ralph do you just enjoy getting the shit kicked out of you?? If so we can just make it simple and kick your ass out of this town.
I have done alot of voulenteer work, and i'm a voulenteer as we speak. I'd just like to see some new people, thats all. And on another subject, all that the people on this site do is talk about Ralph, Ralph, Ralph. Why do you give a crap what he says or does or thinks, or lies about. Every time you bring him up you give him more and more power to say, "look I have them all scared". They can't stop thinking about me! Ignore him! Even now you got me talking about him. People, give out information that is correct, and the hell with the rest. Get in peoples faces (the way "HE" does) and explain whats happening in our Town. Don't stoop to a lowlifes level.
The bashing of Ralph on this site makes him weaker NOT STRONGER!!
There used to be a time when people feared Ralph. This site provides an anonymous ave for people to feel they can speak out...it also leads to people feeling comfortable enough to just eventually speak out without the secrecy of this site.
Ralph thinks he is strong now becuase he got this village though. The village didnt pass becuase of Ralph. It passed becuase of fear of KJ.
Your already seeing people on here saying...i voted for the village...but i sure as hell am not voting for Ralph or any of his people.
The bashing of Ralph on this site makes him weaker NOT STRONGER!!
There used to be a time when people feared Ralph. This site provides an anonymous ave for people to feel they can speak out...it also leads to people feeling comfortable enough to just eventually speak out without the secrecy of this site.
Ralph thinks he is strong now becuase he got this village though. The village didnt pass becuase of Ralph. It passed becuase of fear of KJ.
Your already seeing people on here saying...i voted for the village...but i sure as hell am not voting for Ralph or any of his people.
It's illegal to have a referendum on zoning laws in NY?? Remember that was Laburnt's and tiny Krause's statement. Take that with a big dose of castor oil. However, let's say it's true, then NY should get with the times. Other states do allow permissive referendum when it comes to zoning laws. Maine is a prime example.
If it were done here, there would be good chance that this whole zoning issue would be gone.
Curious George
Dear George (P?)
Do write when you find a nice place in Maine to settle down. Maybe you can run for trustee up there.
It amazes me that when frustrated, certain authors on this site revert to name calling and insults, especially you, Curious George. For your information,Mr. Liberth obviously made it through law school, and is a successful attorney, so I am sure he is somewhat intelligent.I might also add, he was hand-picked by Ralph Caruso and Marty Stanise to be the attorney for the Town. Obviously Mr. Liberth wised up, as did most of the current Town Board members, and cut the apron strings from Ralph. As for Mrs. Crouse, she is an extremely intelligent and compassionate person, who is as genuine as they come in her defense of our wonderful Town. She has no political agenda. She has been diligent in her efforts to see that procedure and policy are adhered to, and probably possesses more knowledge and history of the Town of Woodbury in her pinky as you and all your cohorts in your feeble (not an insult, just an observation) little brains. I applaud Richard Liberth for speaking the truth, and Robin Crouse for being an honest and devoted protector of our Town. Although both individuals have probably spent countless hours researching, documenting,etc in order to get HONEST answers to the residents of this town, please remember that Mrs. Crouse does NOT get paid a dime. SHE does it GRATIS, and ALWAYS gives the facts, even when they may not be exactly what all residents want to hear. So, Curious George, you think that you can rally your troops and get NY to change THEIR laws, and allow a permissive referendum, then by all means, GO FOR IT...just do it on YOUR OWN DIME, and NOT with my tax dollars that Ralph plans on stealing through the creation of the Village!!!!
Hey Curious George, H.A. Rey called and said you're an insult to his beloved character...at least his monkey had a brain!
I love reading this blog.
What's a friendly annexation ? Oh I know the answer. That's when KJ petitions the town for our land and Lorraine Mcneil, Gerry Genzaro, Mike Queenan and Mike Aranawitz all vote yes and John Buke votes no.
NEW YORK TIMES Monday, August 28, 2006
Reverberations of a Baby Boom
August 27, 2006
Reverberations of a Baby Boom
By FERNANDA SANTOS
KIRYAS JOEL, N.Y., Aug. 22 — As the administrator of this village in southern Orange County, Gedalye Szegedin knows that much of his job revolves around a simple equation: the number of girls who get married is roughly equal to the number of new homes this community will need to accommodate its rapid growth.
Last year, Mr. Szegedin oversaw the construction of 200 houses and apartments, mostly on the outer-lying lots along the eastern edge of this 1.1-square-mile community, an ultra-Orthodox Jewish enclave about 60 miles north of Midtown Manhattan. By the end of this year, he said, the village will most likely have 300 new homes.
“There are three religious tenets that drive our growth: our women don’t use birth control, they get married young and after they get married, they stay in Kiryas Joel and start a family,” Mr. Szegedin said.
“Our growth comes simply from the fact that our families have a lot of babies,” he added, “and we need to build homes to respond to the needs of our community.”
But developable land is a finite resource here, and not much of it is left. And as Kiryas Joel pushes up against its borders, nearby neighbors in the towns of Blooming Grove and Woodbury are moving aggressively to prevent the community from expanding by incorporating into villages of their own.
“We still have huge tracts of open land in Woodbury, and we want to keep it that way,” said Woodbury’s supervisor, John P. Burke, who grew up in the Bronx and moved to Orange County in 1969.
“We want to make sure that no outside community is able to completely transform the character and the look of our town,” he said. “If we need a village to do that, so be it.”
Kiryas Joel’s population leaped to 18,300 last year from 13,100 in 2000 and 7,400 in 1990, making it one of the fastest growing places in the state, according to the most recent estimates by the Census Bureau. For two years, developers and local officials have been searching for private parcels in surrounding communities, hoping to expand the village through annexation for the third time since it was incorporated in 1977 as an offshoot of the Satmar Hasidic sect of Williamsburg, Brooklyn.
After its incorporation, most of the growth was driven by migration from New York City. But now, new arrivals are mostly babies and grooms coming to marry one of the local women.
Worried residents in Blooming Grove, which lies northwest of here, and Woodbury, which lies east, have voted overwhelmingly in the past two months to approve the creation of two new villages. State law allows villages to be established within towns and to set their own zoning regulations, and area officials say the new villages would be able to restrict the multifamily, high-density building that predominates in Kiryas Joel.
Many of the families in those towns also fled the crowded streets of New York City, moving here for the cleaner air, the safer communities and the open spaces, where the closest neighbor may not be so close.
“We’re hard-working people who decided to move up here to pay less taxes and enjoy the quietness of country,” said Garry Dugan, a retired New York City detective and the president of the South Blooming Grove Homeowners Association, the group that began the drive to create one of the villages.
“It’s a shame that it has come to us and them, but we feel like we had to form a village for no reason other than preserving our quality of life,” said Mr. Dugan, who has lived in Blooming Grove for 26 years. “This has nothing to do with their religion.”
It is not the first time that Kiryas Joel and its neighbors have clashed.
Over the years, there have been disputes — over a water pipeline Kiryas Joel sought to build, for example, and whether the state should pay for a school system for its disabled students. There was also an argument in 1986 when 600 Kiryas Joel boys refused to board school buses driven by women. (The drivers are now all men.)
The Satmar Hasidim share what they call a deep mystical connection to Kiryas Joel. They were led here by their founder, the Grand Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum, who saw in it the ideal place for his followers to raise large families away from the influences of the outside world. Hence the name of the village, which means Town of Joel.
About 3,000 families live here, many of them in boxy wood-frame homes built close to one another, with up to a dozen apartments stacked in four floors.
The village has no parks or public playgrounds, so children play with their colorful plastic toys on small front yards.
A network of sidewalks twirl across the village, so the women, who do not drive, are able to walk to the clinic and supermarket. Baby strollers seem to be everywhere: in the lobbies of buildings, on sidewalks, outside the stores.
“This is a great place to raise our children; it’s easy to keep them away from the distractions of the city,” said Judith Greenfeld, 34, whose family moved here from Williamsburg two decades ago.
All but 3 of her 12 siblings live here.
Mrs. Greenfeld and her husband, Joseph, 35, have five children, three boys and two girls, ages 3 to 13. The median age is 15, compared with 35 for the nation, according to the 2000 census. The village has one of the lowest median ages among communities nationwide with more than 5,000 residents.
The Greenfelds live on a dead-end street, in a third-floor apartment across from a girls’ school. Like most families here, they speak more Yiddish than English and have no radio, computer or television at home. Mr. Greenfeld owns a tile shop in Monroe, just outside the village borders.
His wife helps him run the business, which makes her a rare exception among Kiryas Joel’s women, who are married soon after they graduate from high school, work until they give birth to their second child and then become stay-at-home mothers. The men, meanwhile, board yellow school buses every morning and ride to New York City, to jobs in the diamond district or at B & H, the photo and video store near Herald Square.
Because of the sheer size of the families (the average household here has six people, but it is not uncommon for couples to have 8 or 10 children), and because a vast majority of households subsist on only one salary, 62 percent of the local families live below poverty level and rely heavily on public assistance, which is another sore point among those who live in neighboring communities.
“We just don’t understand why they have to keep pushing their expansionist ideas on us,” said Charles J. Bohan, who is the supervisor of the Town of Blooming Grove and a resident of the new village, named South Blooming Grove.
On Sept. 21, South Blooming Grove will hold its first election for mayor and for a four-member board of trustees. The state must still certify the results of the vote to create the village in Woodbury before elections there can be held.
Mr. Szegedin, Kiryas Joel’s administrator, said his community was not deterred.
"We have several different developers that want to sell land to Kiryas Joel, but if they can’t do it, we can build up,” he said. “We can change our zoning code to allow high-rise apartments. The creation of these villages are not going to stop the growth in the village of Kiryas Joel."
Mrs. Greenfeld agreed.
“People don’t understand the conception of our people, of our religion,” she said. “There’s no government or land or any other authority that can stop us from having babies,” she said while her husband put out a plate of cheese blintzes, strawberries and sour cream.
“If there’s not enough land, families will double up. There’s always going to be room for the new families,” Mrs. Greenfeld said. “And if I have to slice up my apartment in two, I’ll do it, without doubt or hesitation.”
posted by Michael Aronowitz at 6:51 AM 0 comments
Figures, you have to post something from another site. The Times too big a read for you?
So, KJ wants to build tall buildings in the sky now??...we'll i propose we hold a referendum and incorporate heaven as a village to maintain the zoning in the sky...Ralph can be Mayor since he already thinks he is god.
Maybe Laburnt broke away from Caruso but his leash is still held on by the "break away" group very tightly. Whenever they want a ruling that goes their way, THEY just tug on the line. As for Krause having an agenda...I'll have to seriously think about that unless trying to get Conroy back in office an agenda..
CG
CG- grow up, and while your at it, watch your back. Slander and libel can wipe out your savings, and those that you consider friends may just be ready to turn you in.
Hark,
LaBurnt speaks..or is it writes. Can he write??
Who the hell is Laburnt and Krause?
Do you mean Rich LiBerth and Neil Crouse?
I suggest to this poster that he or she find out how to spell someones name before posting because I can hardly follow what you are saying. I can only help you spell for so long, then I will throw you to the wolves.
Again nobody believes what you say.
It appears that sarcasm is lost on the unintelligent.
It appears the uintelligent are trying to be sarcastic...it isnt working.
I was actually fairly impressed by the NY Times article... looks like they actually did their homework, summed things up pretty well and didn't skew things into a religious discrimination fest. And actually got quotes from MANY sides. Would have been nice if Burke hadn't been the only one speaking for our town, but they clearly made an effort.
Robin Crouse is a truly devoted person... I've watched her at work for over two decades and while she isn't perfect (who is?), I don't see how anyone can challenge her devotion or commitment to this town. Given that she's been doing this longer than nearly ANYONE's been in office, and hasn't gotten a cent for it seems to speak for itself. I haven't always agreed with her, but I respect her deeply on many levels.
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