At last night's Public Hearing on the Legacy Ridge FEIS John Baranowski totally destroyed any hope that Millennium Homes had of getting their project approved when he asked "who pays when my child falls off the water tower?"
Take that developers!
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Photo News July 21, 2006
To the editor:
Last week, Woodbury Town Board member Michael Aronowitz reversed his 2005 decision and voted to approve both the Woodbury Suburban housing plan and the five town laws that enable it and any number of other possible massive residential developments in the town. The board’s action was required after a judge ruled against Town procedures and sent the matter back for re-vote.
Upon the 4-1 vote in favor (Supervisor John Burke voting “No”), a number in the audience let go with loud applause and cheers.
But what did they have to cheer about?
For one, they may have been pleased that, while so many Orange County communities are busy establishing strong and sensible policies and practices to preserve open space, Woodbury has, by the board’s vote, signed over responsibility for setting aside “forever-green” lands on its largest open parcels to developers - all part of an open space law that is muddy, unenlightened, and weak on several counts.
And consider this: At the very moment that Sheila Conroy, former Woodbury town supervisor and once the driving municipal force behind Woodbury Suburban and its laws, was speaking before the County Legislature with an appeal to prevent the construction of water storage tanks on county parkland (Gonzaga) in Woodbury, the Woodbury Town Board was sitting down to approve Ms. Conroy’s open-space law that, in specific terms, encourages developers, working in concert with the town, to use a development’s dedicated open space for accessory components and structures - including, you may guessed, water tanks!
Or, supporters of Woodbury Suburban may be pleased that the senior housing component of the plan and its enabling laws bubbled to the surface without any recent analysis of the town’s need for high-cost, densely built, semi-attached senior units-and with only weak provision for holding the developer’s feet to the fire to actually sell those units to senior citizens.
Maybe they are pleased that these town laws can be - and certainly will be - applied to every large vacant parcel of land. In theory, that includes the acres - in the thousands - of Arden House property owned by Columbia University; acres whose future is now cloudy as Columbia prepares to leave the property behind.
And maybe the cheering residents are pleased that the town board nearly unanimously rejected the uncharacteristically strong rebuke that the county’s expert planners brought against the suitability of the Woodbury Suburban plan.
Maybe the cheers were for an entrance and exit road for Woodbury Suburban’s 450 or more homes that will be placed directly across the street from the main entrance to Monroe-Woodbury High School.
Maybe supporters like the idea of how a bloated, dense development is going to succeed in a softening housing market.
And, again, maybe the cheering section was pleased to be reminded that the developer of Woodbury Suburban was encouraged to keep the bed warm by picking up the tab for the town’s portion of the defense of the lawsuit brought against Woodbury Suburban and its laws - and that the town would have been pleased to have that developer pay for an appeal of the lawsuit had the Board vote not gone as it did last week.
There is reason to cheer, too, if you are pleased that a development plan concocted with the idea of protecting the town has a good chance of being its ruin anyway. And cheer if you like the idea that your elected officials have their feet on the accelerator while someone else is steering the wheel.
For those who were not cheering on the evening of July 6 - for those who had instead cheered Mr. Aronowitz last November when he voted against Woodbury Suburban and its high-density laws - his declaration the other evening that “things have changed” since his first vote on this matter is a puzzling and disappointing one. The spectacle of his mumbled vote was remarkable mostly for how it lacked conviction. He said not one audible word about what had changed other than his conviction, and he hasn’t said so since, even though I directly asked him to make himself accountable to the community.
But in Woodbury, Mr. Aronowitz might be forgiven for thinking no one could hear him, anyway, above the cheers of those who must now be happy to live with the consequences of a bankrupt, ill-fitting strategy for the community’s future.
John Baranowski
Central Valley
...............................
Photo News, August 2, 2006
To the editor:
One can only feel sympathy for John Baranowski, who, in a letter to the editor last week, appeared to be wracked by a paralyzing fear of the future. Let me reassure him that, as is the case with so many frightened people, his terror is created solely by his ignorance of the subject at hand and that by learning the facts he will be able to put his mind at ease.
For example, he believes that the five local laws recently re-enacted by the Woodbury Town Council “can be - and certainly will be - applied to every large vacant parcel of land.” Knowledge of those laws would show Mr. Baranowski that at most only nine other parcels of land could even be proposed to the Town Board for such development.
He goes to on speculate that the laws could be applied to the “thousands (of acres) of Arden House.” He is unaware that the codicil governing the bequest of Arden House would make this impossible.
He is fearful that the senior housing that will be created will be “high-cost, densely built (and) semi-attached,” and that there are “only weak provision for holding the developer’s feet to the fire to actually sell those units to senior citizens.”
In truth, the laws enable builders to erect housing for seniors at lower cost than would otherwise be possible. The density of the senior units will be four per acre - which is no change from the previous law - and there will no attached units at all. The provisions setting these units aside for seniors have been applied in many other localities with a history of holding up.
He believes that approximately one unit per acre (senior housing aside) constitutes “high density.” While this is a bizarre definition of high density, Mr. Baranowski’s confusion is understandable. Ralph Caruso has so often recited that phrase that many gullible people have been taken in.
I note that while he complains about the placement of the entrance to the senior housing section of the WP3 project, he fails to mention that his own home is just there. This omission leads me to suspect that “NIMBY” plays some role in Mr. Baranowski’s objections. That being the case, I would urge him to find the maturity to face his own selfishness, an emotion all humans experience. I would hope that the sooner that he comes to grips with his own humanity, the easier it will be for him to accept reality and conquer his fears.
Jonathan Swiller
Highland Mills
Does John's child climb the cell tower and the other water towers in Woodbury?
Can we say "Trespass"?
What an idiot you are Baranowski.
John B...if you look after your son he won't be climbing on the water towers!
What is it with the mental deficiencies of guys with the name John B?? Neither of the two infamous ones in Woodbury seem to be able to look at the big picture, rather they both seem to be deeply attached to self-serving agendas. Perhaps it's something in the CV water??
Ah yes, Fond memories of developments past. Just another example of Swillers and his Swillerites (or is it Conroyites) being hypocrites when they spout "NOT ONE INCH"
I think you are forgetting that "not one inch' referred to KJ.
how convenient of you.
Mr. BABBOON-ALSKI. Maybe Mike changed his mind because hes not blindly following Ralph and actually read the documentation and realized what an idiot Ralph is? Did you think of that? Ralph has no control over him, and so when he informs himself and looks at the entire Town, not just CV, he came to his own opinion. Why don't you try doing that?
And if i'm not mistaken, there are other Water Towers in Town. How many children has fallen to their deaths because of them? You are an IDIOT!
Not one Inch should pertain to all or are you so narrow minded as to thinking just one way. Oh wait...you're a Swiller/Conroyite!!
Several years ago the Chasidic community wanted to build a water theme park on the corner of rt 32 and Trout brook. With all the water that is available in this area, I am sure they could easily build a Chasidic community of at least 6000 residents. They certainly won't be over burdening the Cornwall School District. Traffic won't be a problem from sundown Friday to sunddown Saturday. Perhaps the naysayers in Woodbury would prefer this.
I am neither a Swillerite or a Conroyite. Unlike most of you people on this blog I am capable of thinking for myself.
Builders have every right to develope their land, but they should and must conform to our laws in doing so. Suppose the builder that built your home was not allowed to do so?
A little historical background:
When I came up with the "Not One Inch" campaign, it was a direct response to the statement by Kiryas Joel Administrator Gedalye Szegedin that he was willing to discuss which parts of Woodbury KJ would annex.
I found that offer to be analogous to someone saying "I'm willing to negotiate with you over which of your eyes I knock out."
http://archive.recordonline.com/archive/2004/12/21/woodbury.htm
http://archive.recordonline.com/archive/2004/12/21
/woodbury.htm
Mr. Baranowski's letter was so disturbing on so many levels that one does not know where to begin:
1) Either he only looked at the laws after Caruso told him what they said but did not really read them. The same Caruso who told people at a meeting that the Fire Commission could continue after the Village was formed and whose boss, Senator Bill Larkin, had to introduce special legislation (which failed) to allow the very fire commission to continue. It will not continue and will dissolve, unlike what Caruso said, at midnight, Dec. 31.
2) He was tutored by John Burke who used to visit him a great deal.
Oops, scratch that. Burke admitted at a Town Board meeting, when questioned as to why he voted against senior housing, that he didn't actually read the law that he opposed.
3) He knew what the law said, at least his version of it, without reading it.
Just a few of the mistakes (there is not time to recite all of them)
Arden House land was taken over by a public land trust so it will not be developed unless that group sells it.
The senior housing, if you actually took the time to read the document, is 4 units per acre, the same as the original law. Only the new one says they can own their own homes, instead of only being able to rent them. Shame on seniors for not wanting to pay rent for the rest of their lives and actually wanting to own their homes like others.
The senior houses are totally detached and have their own yards.
Mr. Baranowski's defintion of high density is very strange. Bob Donnelly of the Democratic Committee actually lives in high density housing of 7 to over 9 units per acre, all attached (actually 4 units attached). Doesn't Mr. Caruso live on barely a little more than 1/4 acre lot too?
Give those people a hypocrite award.
The infrastructure in the open space that Mr. Baranowski refers to--isn't that water and those tanks for all of the residents in the Town's water district, not just for the developer? Won't Mr. Burke, Mr. Baronowski, Mr. Caruso, the Mulolley's, Manny Manquel, Bob Donnelly all use the new water and benefit from these tanks? Easy mathematical solution---simply subtract the 1 acre or so that will be used for these tanks from the open space. So instead of 100+ acres of open space, Woodbury will get 99+ acres of open space.
What is truly shocking is that Burke, Caruso, and their group have been shown publically, even in this last election and in the village election, to have deceived people and yet they still expect people to believe.
You could change the names and faces and they all say the same misinformation.
Sure, go after Conroy, but it was a second Board with some different members who revoted to approve the 5 laws. Are you saying that she sent brain waves through the air and forced the Board to vote the way it did? Wow, what powers she has.
One last thing: Did Mr. Barnowski actually say that the proposed water towers on Legacy pose a danger to his child who might climb them and fall off. Doesn't he live miles from those towers? So guess he would have to drive his child there, direct him to the towers and let him climb up. Doesn't anyone question the reasoning of such thinking?
One can certainly disagree with the laws cited, but please don't show your ignorance by totally misrepresenting what they really say. Disagree on facts, not on ignorance and misinterpretation.
This is not the first time that Conroy's fantastic mental powers have been referenced on this blog.
The Uncle refers you to this posting from July 17, 2006.
Over The Transom
The following was tossed into the Uncle's office along with the morning paper and a number of bricks. An attached note said
"Please read this for me at the next Town Board Meeting" I couldn't make out the signature, it just looked like foam.
"First, I just want to say that I am not here to say anything negative about anyone on the Town Board or anywhere at all because I know that you and everyone else is working just as hard as you can to do what is right for all of us even if you are terribly terribly wrong and are destroying this town.
"If anyone thinks that I have said any bad thing about anyone then I want to set that straight right now, and I know that that is what some of you are thinking and that you are always thinking that and that you think about me all the time doing bad, bad things and wearing strange clothes and you really have to stop thinking about me like that and you just do it because Sheila Conroy, who is in league with Satan, makes you do it, but I know that you are all very, very good people and so you must work to fight her evil powers.
"She keeps calling me in the middle of the night on her special phone that no one else can hear and she tells me to do bad bad things and wear strange clothes and she can’t stop thinking about me.
"So, I am asking the Town Board to outlaw Sheila Conroy and also those bad, bad newsletters that write bad, bad things about me and have drawings of me and pictures of me and stories about me and never find time to talk about anything but me and you really can’t allow that, not when our President is working so hard and our boys and girls are fighting so hard to keep us free and you just can’t let bad things like that happen.
"Thank you."
Siebold spoke too. He didn't really have anything to say. He was just there to try to bait people, which one of the only things that he's good at.
If you're saying that Don Siebold is a master baiter, I'll take your word for it.
You all don't get the point, he was questioning who would be liable for anything occuring there. Stop being such assholes and making it seem that he actually fears his child is climbing up water towers, you should all know that was NOT what he meant, and if you do think that, well your probably a close minded dumbass in the first place. Someone even went as far as to go back in the archives of our unflattering local newspaper and rebut that. Pathedic and dispicable is what most of you are.
Is that the only part of Mr. Baranowski's speech that anyone mentions? This must be how this blog works, have a bunch of primative jerks post what THEY and ONLY THEY think, and then make it seem like everyone in Woodbury backs him/her up. Sounds like a good idea, if you're a narrow minded fool. But who am I to rebuttle any of you angry, frothing at the mouth, seemingly always correct people who seem to have never made a mistake in what you do, which of course is crusade for the destruction of the town.
Oh, so we now have a new excuse for all the nonsense from those "other" people....it was a "mistake".
Perhaps if Mr. Baranowski had used his time to make valid points rather than to interject nonsense and sarcasm, maybe, just maybe people would have taken him seriously!
Nonesense and sarcasm? Oh I forgot how little sarcasm is in this blog. I am soooo sorry too. Because no one talks nonesense here, It's all the straight up facts. Half of this is based off sarcasm and poking fun at others, so think before you speak oh so idiotically next time.
Looks like things are getting slow and people are tired of all this name calling and are turning us off. Better get constructive ...
Hit a nerve John?
As to the archives, that letter of yours (and the rebuttle) establish that you are more than willing to invent "facts" to make your arguments.
It seems that you complain when you are not fully quoted and complain when you are fully quoted.
Strike "complain" and substitute "whine."
John, no one forced you to make that inane comment about the water tower. Don't complain when you are accurately quoted.
I do not wish to associate what I said with mr.Baranowski, but seeing what has been going on here(woodbury) has just made me angry and confused. It's hard to decide between development benefiting or hurting our community, which has made me conflicted.
Former players who are linked can be called very interesting , but have no comment.
In the center area of play, put the draw pile!
A thriller filled with political authenticity in an otherwise shaky government!
Dear Conflicted
As I see it, the reason that it is hard to decide if development hurts or helps a community is that generally it does both. Life is a trade off with few choices being truely superb or totally awful.
What one has to do, if one cares, is learn as much as possible, weigh the trade-offs, and come to a decision. One useful tool is to see who consistently uses misinformation to bolster his arguments and then discount whatever that person says.
If someone (Mr. Babboonowski) goes so far as to write a letter to the Editor of the paper with all his facts, you would think that he actually HAD all the facts. Not write a novel of a letter and then claim, oops sorry that was a mistake. Is that what the prevoius blogger is saying? Well to late dear. He has made an ass out of himself, just like the rest of that crew always seems to do.
The reason people comment on Mr. Baranowski's remark is that it was flippant and silly. There are other water towers in Woodbury, closer than those proposed for Legacy, that also benefit him and all the other people in the water district. No one ever suggested that a child climbing one and falling off was a consideration as to whether they should be built.
Perhaps people's anger here is due to the fact that Burke and his Democratic majority on the new Town Board and Caruso have been shown, documented, to mislead (translate lie) to people and continue doing it as if it does not matter.
Burke and team stole votes in this and the last election with lying last minute fliers that benefited them because they flat out lied about their opponents without providing enough time for a response.
Dirty politics, lack of ethical behavior and shameful show of manipulation and/or lack of knowledge. Perhaps some of those posting are angry because they now know they were lied to and their precious vote was stolen. Their followers who gloat over this accomplishment are just at responsible.
Here's a thought...We no longer allow builders to build. The current residents of the Town/Village can share the cost of replacing much needed water lines, sewer treatment plants, etc. You think your taxes are high now?
If new people want to enjoy our community...let them pay.
Look at the list of complainers and where their homes are...I don't think any of them have more than an acre, if that! And yet, they continue with their nonsense and ballyhooing, and monotonous cry of "I'm here, now let's slam the door on everyone else that wants in"! FYI- it doesn't work that way in a civilized society!
Kudos to the last post, to think that we can all shut the door on any future growth, is just absurd. We must have well planned and controlled growth to offset rising tax costs. What if we shutthe door on all the builders over the past 20 years?, how many of you would have homes in Woodbury? And yes I can ask that question, I have been here for many many years, I have welcomed all of you, now you must do the proper thing and welcome others that wnat to live in our community.
The whiners keep us very entertained.
It's a shame that they are so misrable.
We should feel sorry for them.
Perhaps they're just jealous because they live in little raised ranches on postage stamp sized lots themselves!!!
Nah, it must be that they are just miserable people. I for one am very happy living on my postage sized lot in my average size ranch.
G-d Bless those that can afford the McMansions. They have worked for it, let them enjoy.
[i]Here's a thought...We no longer allow builders to build. The current residents of the Town/Village can share the cost of replacing much needed water lines, sewer treatment plants, etc. You think your taxes are high now?
If new people want to enjoy our community...let them pay.[/i]
And lets not forget lawsuits if Caruso/Burke gain zoning power and start imposing arbitrary, legally sketchy moratoriums on ANY building like they've promised in the past. That'll do great things for our taxes! (and make us look REAL competent when trying to claim lead agency in future annexation cases!).
Hmm, wonder if we could require developers to build a slip-and slide for kids to prevent the temping prospect of water-tower diving. :P
In all seriousness though, glad to see discussion continuing around here. Been busy with end of classes, but I've got a few points I'm hoping to post comparing environmental, visual, tax impacts of Legacy AND the development Ralph's beloved old-zoning would have allowed. Stay tuned!
Hey Kid hope your not getting your info from Mommy she is a LOOSER.
Hello. My wife and I bought our house about 6 months ago. It was a foreclosure and we were able to get a great deal on it. We also took advantage of the 8K tax credit so that definitely helped. We did an extensive remodeling job and now I want to refinance to cut the term to a 20 or 15 year loan. Does anyone know any good sites for mortgage information? Thanks!
Mike
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