Wednesday, January 30, 2008

Manny Manny's Mixed Message



Manny Mangual wrote a letter to the Record last week:

The decision by the Orange County district attorney's office to reargue the case against former Middletown Mayor, Joseph DeStefano is wrong! Is this politics at its worse? Or is this simply a case of being a sore loser?

District Attorney Frank Phillips is a department head and steward of a large budget. Government resources or better yet, tax dollars should not be spent on soothing the egos of the district attorney's office. This is a case of someone allegedly lying on a financial form that is no longer used in Middletown because of its ambiguity. To pursue this matter is childlike with this "I'll get even" move.

It is interesting that Phillips refuses to prosecute "election fraud" cases. When a sitting assemblywoman committed fraud on her petitions, Phillips refused to prosecute. When a sitting mayor had his mentally disabled niece sign petitions that she was unable to witness, again Phillips refused to prosecute.

With all of the "REAL" crime being committed in Orange County, pursuing this no-case misdemeanor is wrong, wasteful of tax dollars and harassment of one of Middletown's finest mayors.

Manny Mangual
Highland Mills


Apparently, Manny believes that lying is no big deal. But then we already knew that.

What we didn't know was that Manny gets upset about election fraud.

Now that's news.

He's also made clear how he feels about open governance.

As you may recall:

At the October Dem's meeting, Bo introduced a resolution denouncing the Village of Woodbury for signing an intermunicipal agreement with the Village of Kiryas Joel.

Village Trustee Neil Crouse explained to the Committee why the Woodbury Village Board felt the agreement was worth signing.

The Committee then decided not to condemn the Woodbury Village Board, but did pass a resolution denouncing the Vilage of KJ for the way it had acted when it put up two water towers in Woodbury.

Bo abstained on that resolution (the one condemning KJ) and John Burke voted against it.

But somehow, after the meeting was over, the resolution changed and became a denunciation of both KJ and Woodbury.

"How'd that happen?" Neil asked at the next Committee meeting.

Manny explained that if the situation changes after a meeting, the Committee can vote by phone or email to address the new circumstances.

And what were these new circumstances?

After some hemming and hawing and a variety of conflicting answers, Manny owned up to the fact that the only "new circumstance" was that Ralph's Republican Committee had condemned the Village of Woodbury.

Well, if Ralph did it, then obviously the Democratic Committee has to do it too.

"And, who took part in this telephone and email re-vote?" Neil asked.

"Gee, I don't remember," said Manny, "but I have that information at home and I'll bring it to the next meeting."

Jump ahead two months to the next meeting.

In Neil's absence the Pieman asked Manny for the list of who voted and which way they each went.

Manny refused to say.

"Doesn't a vote have to appear in the Committee's minutes?" asked the Pieman.

"Not always, " Manny explained, rewriting the Committee's bylaws on the fly.

Maybe the idea of a Woodbury Democratic Club isn't such a bad idea.

41 comments:

Anonymous said...

Yes! Form a Woodbury Democratic club!!! There are some good Democrats out there and we need to hear from them!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Yes! Form a Woodbury Democratic club!!! There are some good Democrats out there and we need to hear from them!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Quote "Maybe the idea of a Woodbury Democratic Club isn't such a bad idea". I think that its about time to get annexed to the Village of Kiryas Joel (KJ) it will be better then having 2 Republican and 2 Democratic commitee's, it will bring down our taxes and eliminate the wasteful new Village of Woodbury, WAKE UP EVEREYBODY SMELL THE COFFEE!!

Anonymous said...

"Wasteful new Village of Woodbury"?? Where are you getting your info (Bo)?? To start with, several trustees don't even take a salary, unlike Mr. Burke who with less work to do, accepted a 2% raise! Secondly, the Village board is mindful of the PROMISES they made, and discusses every item of cost in depth. Mr. Burke on the other hand doesn't appear to research anything- he'll just start slashing employee benfits when the Town needs money. Better rethink that ridiculous statement you made, pal.

Anonymous said...

Mangual is a two-faced moron. make things up as he goes along. How come two of his family members are on the Democratic committee, but from what I've been told never show up at meetings? Do they even exist, or are they just Manny's proxies? I heard they can't even field a whole committee and always have many vacancies because people can't stand Mangual, Donnelly and the rest of them.

Anonymous said...

All Town of Woodbury Elected Officials received a 3% increase (not 2%, as previously stated by someone) in salary including Mr. Burke, Town Supervisor.

Anonymous said...

And WHO is wasteful?

Kieran Conroy said...

I wonder if Mr. Manguel considers his party's bylaws and minutes to be as trivial and outdated as those forms.
He's treating them as such, why bother with public meetings if you're going to make the decisions behind closed doors anyway?

Is there any way members of the Democratic party can pursue this matter further? How are such bylaws and the keeping of minutes enforced?

Anonymous said...

What village trustees don't take a salary? How much do the others get paid? And who in the town got an increase when the village was formed?

Anonymous said...

There are at least 2, if not 3 trustees that don't take the salary ($4K??). As of the new Town budget, the Supervisor and board members are ALL getting and taking an increase, even though several departments have been changed to the Village.

Anonymous said...

Clarification:

It is my understanding that three out of the four trustees(Mike Kling, Neil Crouse and Joann Stabile)have declined their salaries of $2K(not $4K)and are not taking benefits either.
Thanks to all of you for doing so. This is a HUGE SAVINGS TO THE RESIDENTS OF THE VILLAGE!

Anonymous said...

I think a correction is in order. To the village board member who seems to be fixated on the town board salaries, the town board received a 2% salary increase.

The village did not take over several departments they took over the two departments with the least amount of staff.
Give us a break village trustee if you feel you should get paid more money then give yourself a raise but stop comparing apples to oranges.

Anonymous said...

In reference to the village trustees not taking their salary:
"This is a HUGE SAVINGS TO THE RESIDENTS OF THE VILLAGE!"

Are you out of your mind? 6K out of a budget of how many millions? Wow! you are probably saving at least 60 cents a year personally.

You couldn't get too many people to do that job for free with all that responsibility and aggravation. And quite frankly, they are foolish for doing the trustee job for nothing. The 2K doesn't even cover their expenses and makes you think that you get what you pay for.

Anonymous said...

The town councilmen are part time and are paid for part time. But the village trustee should get the same as them. Yes, that means that we will be paying for someone to do the same job twice, but, hey, you voted for a village!

There are other positions that are now part time but still have full time salaries, like the supervisor and the town clerk who also gets a salary for being village clerk, which she does while she is paid for the town clerk job. Maybe you salary watchers should be watching those two.

Anonymous said...

I agree the town councilmen and village trustee should be paid the same salaries. The trustees are foolish for not taking a salary or a small salary and then complain about all the work they do.

I also agree that people shouldn't complain if they have to pay for two governments they voted for it.

Anonymous said...

Village of Woodbury, August 26, 2014

Residents of the Village of Woodbury gathered yesterday at the newly completed village hall to voice their objection to yet another proposed village tax increase. The fifth since the village was incorporated in 2004.

Many residents openly admitted that they were hoodwinked in 2004, into supporting the creation of this village. “We were warned by many level headed officials that this village will do nothing more than feed the egos of some self-centered individuals. We didn’t want to believe them so we’re finding out the hard way instead,” they angrily stated.

Indeed, from the then County Executive Diana on down, almost all elected officials cautioned Town of Woodbury residents to take a long hard look at what they are being told would be the advantages of a new village and whether the statements were verifiable. As it was, caution was thrown to the wind. The fear-mongers carried the day. They got themselves elected mayor and trustees simply by repeating their mantra “A new village is the only way to stop Kiryas Joel.”

We were so caught up in this battle cry that it never occurred to any of us to ask; “stop Kiryas Joel from doing what? And why the Village of Woodbury would be better able to accomplish this than the Town of Woodbury. Or at what cost to us this would be accomplished. As it turned out, the only thing the village of Woodbury managed to accomplish was to add yet another layer of bureaucracy into our lives. We’re still paying Town taxes and we now also pay village taxes. Did this village stop Kiryas Joel? Heck NO,” the spokesman for the group said, on the condition of anonymity.

When questioned why he refused to reveal his name the spokesman responded; “because tomorrow the mayor will be quoted in the press claiming that I sold my soul to Kiryas Joel.

Josh Oberstock, another village resident was a bit braver. “The mayor can say what he wants about my soul and it won’t matter. The fact is that the village is nine years old and it accomplished nothing! They dragged us into a costly lawsuit with Kiryas Joel and in the end Kiryas Joel did annex land from The Village of Woodbury. The irony is that this helped keep village taxes from going even higher,” he said bitterly.

He continued: “This mayor was conveniently forget to mention an obscure state law that when village boundaries are coterminous with a Fire District, the fire district falls under the jurisdiction of the village. Now, thanks to that honest oversight our once great fire district became the political football of this administration. I had enough,” he said as he walked away in frustration.

He then did a quick about face and asked; “is it still possible to undo what this guy did?” His question was met with a loud and boisterous round of applause.

Anonymous said...

I agree too, about the trustees and the council people. I also agree about hte supervisor and the town clerk, both are working part time and should be paid that way. Nothing personal, I don't care who is in those jobs, the jobs are part time!

Where can I get a gig like that?

Anonymous said...

Dateline: August 20th 2015

Is a New Day Dawning? by Mary Oberstock

It has been almost a year since the unfortunate death of my husband. You will recall that the circumstances were suspicious but there were never any charges brought against the Mayor . I know in my heart that he had something to do with it and I risk getting sued making this statement or worse, I risk what happened to my husband. He never, never went to the area behind the old Eitz Chiam building on 105, he just never had any reason to, and he would not trespass on any one else's property. State Police investigators called the crime "inconclusive" but just how does a middle aged but able bodied man get his arm and leg in that position without any help? And to get them caught in a chicken coop roof would imply that he was walking on the roof or maybe, just maybe, he was dropped from a great height like from the new building right next to it. And to find his body there seems like someone is trying to implicate KJ, but I don't believe they had anything to do with it.

My husband was a brave man who only cared to get at the truth and died for it. Now I understand why most of the people of Woodbury were just too frightened to say anything before his death and especially after. There are no more people speaking out to be followed by a rousing applause. There are no more people who will dare to say what we all think, that this village was formed to give control to one man, one who has such a lust for power that he would go to extremes to get it!

Woodbury, if anything happens to me after this letter is published, you know who did it: The Mayor and his cronies!

I miss the old Photo News and would like to see it return, but alas! that is not to be. I dare the Are Sea Press to publish this.

Mary Oberstock

Anonymous said...

This blog has now gone to a whole new, bizarre and quite disturbing level with the "Oberstock" postings.

Getting back to reality...we all now know that the creation of the Village was nothing more than an ego trip for Ralph and John, with the residents suffering the ultimate "bad trip". What's done is done, and now, to make sure that Ralph and John don't continue to take us down this dangerous path, we must all be vigilant. We must never allow them to stack the Village Board with "their" cronies, for if they do, Woodbury will cease to exist.

Anonymous said...

The stories about the Oberstock's could be found in the KJ Voice. We are not making them up. An author in KJ did.

Anonymous said...

The Oberstock postings do not seem to make sense. I thought the current Village Board members were actually against the forming of a Village. Disn't they only come together after the original Village vote was passed? Maybe I am wrong, but I thought they tried to tell everyone that the fire district would be abolished as well. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Anonymous said...

Yes you are right. The Article does not accuse the current village board members of anything. It is a future article look at the dates.

Anonymous said...

The comments being floated about pay for Trustees frustrates me. When we ran for these positions, no one had any clue as to what would be involved (including those who set up this lovely Village). I did not take a salary because I wanted to do everything I possibly could to keep the taxes down. A good example of keeping the taxes down is running a computerized payroll program that costs about $62.00 a month. The comments about you get what you pay for definitely go against the grain. I invite the person who said it to come spend some time with me. I doubt you could keep up. Time is one of the main reasons I am not running again. There are other things that I do that are important to me. Maybe the person who made the comment would like to join me volunteering with the Fire Department and getting up at 2 AM on a regular basis. And by the way, the Village took over three departments. Don't forget the Fire Department--the largest department in "Village"/Town--manpower wise. Don't get me wrong. I am not bitter. We have tried to do the right thing all the way through while trying to show respect to everyone and keep taxes to a minimum. As mentioned before, I am in the phone book. Give me a call. I am more than happy to meet for coffee and chat. Even though I don't get paid, I will buy--

Anonymous said...

Mike- don't let those who choose to take cheap shots get to you. Those are the people that will run their mouths at every turn, not once getting off their butts to actually do anything. You and the rest of the current board have gone over and above as far as the time and energy that you have given to what will always be a thankless job. I commend you for your hard work, and thank you for keeping your promise to keep the newest layer of government to a minimal cost. Although I would have loved to see you continue, it is certainly understandable why you're not. Once again, many thanks for everything!

Kieran Conroy said...

I also found the Oberstock postings somewhat strange and a little unclear... they imply that those originally pushing for the village with misinformation would come to power next- and the "he" suggests a certain someone coming to power(lord help us!), not the present mayor. It got pretty weird/disturbing in the last posts with stories of murder. Also, for the record incorporation didn't happen in 2004, that was simply the petition which then waited 2 years in courts before it could be actually voted on.

The Community Party coalesced out of people trying to give a balanced, honest assessment in the short time we had before the village vote, and advocated responsible, open government once the decision had been made. I don't know how everyone's individual thinking went, but many of us talked about really weighing the pros and cons, not just blocking Caruso's obvious power-grab. Made more obvious, of course by the continued misinformation in his original packet (and now in this election!) Most of us were against it, but the unifying point was the dishonesty and sloppy facts we saw flying around.

Mike, thanks again for all of your service in what I know has been a hard and thankless job. I saw how much you cared about our community's future in those original meetings, and am sorry your time is limited. Best of luck, in your many endeavors.

Uncle Betty said...

Mary Oberstock refers to the Are Sea (R. C.) Press.
I guess Ralph has a following in KJ.

Anonymous said...

Hey Mike good job.

I think the point in the postings was not to bash village board members but to point out that the village board should have set their salaries at a higher rate of pay.

You need to get paid for your work. Nobody should work for free.

Anonymous said...

Does Manny work for free? BTW who does he work for?

Anonymous said...

Manny does the devils work. He works for Satan and gets paid by Satan. He will be compensated in the end by eternal life in hell.

Anonymous said...

The Oberstock posts are FICTIONAL stories of the FUTURE and what COULD happen. " Is A New Day Dawning" by "Mary Oberstock" was not written by someone in KJ. I know because I wrote it in response to the first fictional posting: "Village of Woodbury, August 26th 2014". It is just a story of what could happen. Fiction, get it? to make a point. Only one person, our dear uncle, got the Are Sea reference. So, please stop being so dense. And go read a book once in a while.

By the way,Manny works in KJ not for the devil.

Mary Oberstock

Anonymous said...

Caruso's misinformation in his first packet? That information did not appear when there was a Preservation Party formed. Queenan gave incorrect and hot-headed information at the Sr. Center when he first proposed the idea of a village. He even answered some questions with, "Because I did the calculations!" when asked about the cost. How come he can change his mind and/or be wrong, but Caruso's first flier comes back to bite him? Admit it, Caruso could be Christ incarnate and you would still hate him just because he's him. I know for a fact that Caruso has the same lofty goals for Woodbury that these bloggers do. I've known him for years. And he's not out to grab power, either. Perhaps you should get your facts straight; hearsay doesn't count. Maybe if Caruso's candidates had been elected instead of the people who didn't even want a Village . . . And the vote was overwhelming; don't tell me Caruso twisted all those arms. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Anonymous said...

WOW... He is the master of manipulation...

Uncle Betty said...

One slight difference between Queenan changing his position and Caruso changing his is that Queenan publicly announced that he had been wrong and apologized. Caruso has never done either.

Each time Caruso has gotten it wrong, strayed from the facts, spoken in error, or, to put it bluntly, outright lied - and then had that lie pointed out - he has tried to shout down the facts and insist that his version is right. And then, when his version has finally become so glaringly wrong that he can't bluster on about it anymore, he conveniently reinvents his position and pretends that he never said his own words.

A prime example of this was his insistence that the fire district, under the control of its own commissioners, would not have to be dissolved and handed over to the village. He claimed this again and again and again. When reality showed the falsity of that position, Caruso simply tried to rewrite his own words and claim that he merely said that Woodbury could continue to have a volunteer fire department - even though that was never the issue.

If Caruso wants the best for Woodbury, he might start showing it by sticking to the truth.

Anonymous said...

The problem is, in Ralph's world there is only the "truth" according to Ralph.

Kieran Conroy said...

The packet I referred to was the Preservation Party's first packet, which continued to proclaim how the Village would protect us from annexation- in direct contradiction to the basic wording of the law anyone can look up online. I didn't see the 2004 packet firsthand (doing that whole trying-to-graduate thing at the time), but spoke to people who raised the issue at that meeting. Two years later, the same misinformation. That implies either gross ignorance or direct manipulation- my belief in the latter is based not on hearsay, but years of watching how Caruso and Co treat people and issues.

I disagreed with Queenen in 2004, and was troubled by the "fuzzy math" we saw happening. The point is he came to acknowledge his mistakes and think for himself. I didn't trust him in the beginning, and have disagreed with a number of people on "our side" at points. But I have given trust when it was well-earned.

Caruso and Burke may believe they have "high-minded ideals," but they are NOT the ideals I and others espouse here. If they believe in their ideals, why consistantly misrepresent issues, often at the 11th hour when candidates have no time to respond? A few mistakes about complex issues is one thing, but consistant manipulation of the truth and vengeful "payback" to people who don't toe the party line is another. I do not judge Caruso (and others) by name, but "by their fruits," in action. Actions I have watched all too closely over the past decade. Personal experience, NOT hearsay.

I saw how Caruso's "high minded ideals" play out when my mother recieved the first (and only) of his friendly "phone calls," less than a month into her first term. Where he let her know, on no uncertain terms how to vote on an ethics law, of all things. That began the years of political attacks and dirty flyers we've seen repeated against anyone and everyone who refuses to blindly "follow the leader." That's not about ideals, but clear power games that continue to hurt Woodbury.

I've repeatedly stated my willingness to consider the views of anyone who presents them in a respectable and honest manner. Unfortunately Caruso, Burke and others have not done this. It did not happen in this last election, despite Aronowitz's gesture of trust at Woodbury Community day.

Trust and dialog is possible across partisan lines- but it must be earned. I continue to challenge anyone to do that, though history gives me little hope from certain quarters.

Anonymous said...

the first packet was not a preservation party packet because there was no preservation party until after the village vote. it was just a ralph packet. queenan only changed his mind when he saw he was on the wrong side of the people he wanted to be with. i think this blog is nothing but a bunch of whiney people who name=call, bash people, hate ralph caruso, and have woodbury's interests at heart, but do nothing productive to get qualified people elected. and the only thing some of you are concerned with is annexation. when the town and village sell their souls to the developers, then kj can annex. there will be no more land left for them to build on and maybe then our taxes will go down. this whole thing is a big mess and some of those who created it have moved or are in the process of moving. nice legacy to leave behind.kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkl

Anonymous said...

Don't know what the last poster is talking about other then some moved because they can't afford woodbury's taxes anymore or refuse to pay woodbury's taxes anymore.

The only people who should move are the people who created this stupid village but they will probably be buried on their 1/4 acre lot.

It's sad that when people express themselves and talk about the issues and their opinion of who created this mess like Ralph Caruso or issues like who should be getting a salary increase or decrease it's looked at as angry or mean.

I think it's what makes this country so great. Why would anyone not want to speak his mind? If thats what you consider complaining then maybe you shouldn't read this blog anymore.

Anonymous said...

Yes it is easy to dismiss someones opinion by calling them "whiney" but it should occur to you that there seem to be ALOT of people who HATE, not just dislike, Ralph Caruso. There
has to be a reason. Or two.

Reason Number One to Hate Ralph Caruso:
He is a liar. (Remember the big meeting at the IBEW where he was contradicting the fire district lawyer? Hundreds of people were there...)

Any more examples out there?

Reason Number Two:

He is a bully. (Ask anyone who has disagreed with him)

Reason Number Three:

He hangs out with Don Siebold

Reason Number Four:

He thinks everyone should kiss his ring because he works for Larkin. (What exactly does he do for Larking anyway?)

Reason Number Five..........

Anonymous said...

Dateline: September 30th 2015

In a strange reenactment of her husband's death, Mary Oberstock was found early today at the chicken coop behind the Old Eitz Chaim building, next to the new building that was constructed this year. Even more chilling is a letter by Mary that was sent to the Are Sea press. It was found by yours truly. In it, her closing comments were:
"Woodbury, if anything happens to me after this letter is published, you know who did it: The Mayor and his cronies!"
This is too much of a coincidence to be ignored and yet that is what the village police are doing?
Chief Berk was quoted as saying "We are looking into it and this should serve as a reminder that the chicken coop is no place to have a meeting."
This reporter wants to know when the State Police Investigators will start looking into this case and that of Josh Oberstock, Mary's husband. Both deaths were unnatural and occurred within a short time frame of both Oberstocks making dissenting comments about the current village administration.
The Mayor could not be reached for comment because he was down in Florida at his property in "The Villages". The remaining members of the Oberstock family have since relocated out of state and could not be reached for comment.

Kieran Conroy said...

I for one am not just concerned about annexation. I want to see Woodbury have a chance to control its own zoning and make the best of the mess we find ourselves in. I am willing to accept that will require some negotiation with developers, because they aren't going to just give away land or sell it cheaply as in places like Warwick's Land Trusts. This isn't a communist land-seizing state, our leaders are trying to make the best of an incredibly high-pressure situation. If the land is sold to someone unwilling to work with us, we could lose any control over planning. There are risks in every case, I believe I have chosen the best of options.

I'm sorry to hear some feel they have to move. The thought of losing the home which has been in my family for over a quarter century would break my heart. But I resent the insinuation that some of us are doing nothing to get qualified people elected. I write letters, research issues and even come back long distances to attend meetings and walk petitions when I can. There are many here who do even more.

Its a frustrating situation, but many are working hard against the odds. Its the best legacy possible, imho.

Anonymous said...

March 1st 2016:

In a surprising sequence of events, The Mayor of Woodbury was found digging up the grave of a former State Senator. When he was stopped by the police, he said that he was merely retrieving something that belonged to him.

"Upon being questioned about his activities, the Mayor told the arresting officer that it was none of his business but 'I am getting something that belongs to me' He then proceeded to get violent and attacked the arresting Officer."

After an investigation, it was determined that the Mayor did not have permission from the Senator's family to dig up the grave and he was charged with unlawful opening of a Grave, miscellaneous mischief and attempted Grave robbing. Charges against the Mayor were dropped when the District Attorney directed his ADA to do so.

The District attorney could not be reached for comment.