New village faces finances
Complicated budget issues for Woodbury
'October 17, 2006
By Chris McKenna
October 17, 2006Times Herald-Record
Woodbury — Residents here who voted in August to create a village with boundaries nearly identical to their town's gambled that their elected leaders could work through any future complications that might arise.
But just weeks before residents return to the polls Nov. 2 to elect the first Village of Woodbury board, town officials are getting a glimpse of the tangled financial issues that lie ahead as they enter what are largely uncharted waters in New York.Among the questions: Which government — town or village — will pocket the sales-tax and mortgage-tax income that Orange County sprinkles among its municipalities to help them meet their expenses?
Woodbury got roughly $2 million from those two sources in 2005. But now, as town officials prepare their budget for next year, they don't know if they can count on sharing the county's largesse any longer, because the new Village of Woodbury might get those checks instead.An even bigger issue: who will collect and spend more than $10 million in Woodbury property taxes? State law dictates the town relinquish its revenue to the village on June 1 — which raises the question of how the town will continue to pay its employees and meet its other obligations.
One possibility is that the village hands its money back to the town. But whatever the solution, some are blasting the activists who told voters before the village referendum that it would be as easy as "leasing" the police department and other town services for a token $1.
"I just think it was incredibly irresponsible," Councilwoman Geraldine Gianzero said yesterday. "Now the town is having to scramble to get answers to all of these questions."
Supervisor John Burke, Gianzero's Town Board colleague, holds fast to the optimistic view that he and other village advocates put out before the referendum: everything will work out in the end."I'm very positive about it," Burke said. "Since 2,100 people voted for a village, we must make it work."
Steve Gross, a spokesman for Orange County Executive Edward Diana, said yesterday that it might take weeks for the county's lawyers to decide how future sales- and mortgage-tax payments to Woodbury will be made."We wish we had the answers for that right now, but it's a complicated issue," he said. "This is an issue that nobody in the county has dealt with before."
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38 comments:
Letter to the Editor from Karen Ungerer: "Personally, I don't have any faith in people who had no faith in our village, so I plan to vote for the Preservation Team of Ralph Caruso, Bill Mullooly, George Pedersen, Ben Meyers and Adrianne Fuchs that has carefully researched and planned and supported the village from the beginning and has developed clear, attainable goals with a platform of substance. They have the knowledge, experience and organization to govern our new village and are obviously one step ahead of the other candidates."
"If you care about the future of Woodbury you, too, should support the Preservation Team Nov. 2."
Ah gee Karen, first you and your pals sue us, now you and your pals screw us.
Thanks loads babe.
Let's put Ralph and company on the game show FEAR FACTOR, and their biggest challenge will be to face and tell the TRUTH!!!!
Ms. Ungerer,
How can you say that the Caruso slate "CAREFULLY RESEARCHED" anything. Caruso said there would be little if any impact on taxes. Did he stop researching when he found out that all the tax revenue to the Town from the county would end? Or was he just that stupid and didn't understand? You and all of Ralphs little lap dogs need to WAKE UP and smell the deciet. It seems that this new information about tax revenue is a total shock to those who you say "CAREFULLY RESEARCHED" all aspects of forming a Village. On a second note, you said, and I will paraphase, If you didn't vote for the Village, you shouldn't have any say in what happens now. Are you kidding me. The Village is here, like it or not. I don't like it, but i'll be damned if the people who lied about how wonderful it was going to be get into office so that they can dupe the residents even more. Also, do you have knowledge of how any of the COMMUNITY PARTY voted in the election? How do you know that these very same people thought that what they were being told was the truth by your boy, only to find out it was Ralphs crap as usual.
I beg everyone who feels that this Village needs to be run by people who get things done, not by intimidation, not by deciet, not by personal agendas, or polical advancement, please, please vote for the Community party. We still may be able to clean up the mess that Ralph has now gotten us into.
I guess Karen Ungrer needs to eat crow.
She takes part in a lawsuit against the town and now has the nerve to say that the Preservation Party did careful research! What research?
They failed to do ANY research regarding village finances. Nothing regarding tax revenue at all.
What is more distrubing is John Burke's lack of research regarding the town revenues. HE was elected to protect the TOWN and it's residents, and yet did nothing and continues to do nothing to protect town finances.
He and Caruso are a discrace to this Community.
Who is the Chief Fiscal Officer for the Town of Woodbury (or do we even have one)?
I would think whomever that is has not been doing their job to protect the citizens of Woodbury. THAT PERSON SHOULD BE FIRED!!
The chief fiscal officer is none other than Mr. Burke. Instead of being outraged and calling out Caruso for misinforming everyone and now creating a financial mess that could cost the town he is responsible for millions of dollars, he just brushes it off and believes that his buddy Ralph will find a way to clean up the mess....
Good Luck...the more Ralph "tries" to "help" the more we find ourselves deeper in the hole.
What the article in the Record fails to mention is that the Town must find a way to make up the lost money asap, or they will be forced to terminate non-essential services and/or layoff some employees from all agenices. Thanks to all who voted for this Village, Great Job!!! Should have done your homework, because it's obvious the Preservation Party didn't....or did they? Maybe this was know to them all along, and they finally get the total control that has eluded them for so many years. Gee, I wonder how our property values are doing these days, think anyone would want to buy inot a Town that faces the serious likliehood of being bankrupt by mid-May?
Todays newspaper quotes Mr. Burke as saying, "since 2100 people voted for the village we must make it work" Are the 2100 all that matter???? What about the other 8,000 or so residents???? Every resident in Woodbury has a stake in this!
Mr. Burke's self-serving comment about 2100 people is as arrogant as it gets. So what about the 583 of us who knew better and voted no??? Can we annex ourselves out of YOUR mess???
What are you guys fretting about???Don't you remember that as an aide to Senator Larkin, Ralph will have a back-up plan....let's just see if some grants and state money that might have been illuding the Town in the past starts flying through it's doors now. Don't you just love how far Burke's got his head up Ralph's butt, who in turn has his up Larkin's??? Wouldn't it be great if Larkin turned the tables on Ralph and told him that he's once, twice, three times a loser and can't be associated with him anymore??? Boy, the joke would certainly be on Ralph!
and all this because you are afraid of having quiet, religious neighbors with lower crime rates than woodbury itself
poetic justice would be for kj residents to move elsewhere and sell their multi-family housing to illegal immigrants & day laborers
There's a difference between "quiet, religious neighbors" and "quiet and religious but with leaders building multi-story urban density housing projects and commercial buildings (just look at rt. 104's lovely panoramic) which blatently ignore NY's environmental protections, and twist religion as the justification."
I would welcome a hasidic synagogue or family next door to me in a heart beat. In fact, I would be honored to have their spiritual center in my neighborhood. My problem is that the leaders of KJ have no interest in coexisting, they just buy out, intimidate and mow over existing neighborhoods with no concern for the people living there already. Their mayor might grandstand with his olive branch letters to the newspaper, but ask anyone in our government who's actually tried to deal with him to see what his true tactics are. (The only exception are the dissidents who have actually backed their talk up with action, talking to our town board and even dropping their lawsuit back in 2005 and have continued to reach out from time to time.)
This kind of behavior is violently irreligious, and against the ethical teachings against love of neighbor and peaceful coexistance. That is why I have joined the fight against KJ's unsastainable growth in the past, and why I will continue to do so in good conscience as long as it takes.
I agree that there are going to be financial problems but that won't change no matter who gets in to run the village!! STOP MAKING IT Ralph’s PROBLEM AND OR FAULT. IF YOU REALLY THINK THAT CARUSO FOOLED ALL 2,000 plus people who voted yes in the village vote you give him to much credit. THE PROBLEM LIES TO WHOMEVER GETS IN!!
If you want a voice on the issues and elections you got to vote to have a say!! All those whiners out their who don't even vote then they complain about it are just pathetic!!
But this is Ralphs problem and or fault. He wanted the Village, and lied to people to get it passed. Are you forgetting that? The blame lie on the person who pushed for this. Where are all his promises of "a burdenless tax base? When he was knocking on doors with his with crocodile tears in her eyes saying "I don't want to lose my home to Hassidics. Where was he when the people of Milval were loosing their homes? They weren't shedding any tears then. Again lay the blame at the doorstep of the source, RALPH CARUSO.
Correction to the above.
When he was knocking on doors with his wife, with crocodile tears in her eyes.
Thank you.
Let's not forget John Burke, instead of spending his time and our taxpayers money on writing letters supporting the Village vote, he should have been doing his job protecting the residents of Woodbury, didn't he do any research on the possible financial ramifications that the Village may pose? He and Ralph should be held accountable.
Can't wait for the Forum, I want to see Ralph's answer to all of this. Or will it be the same as the last one, when he kept saying everyone else, including lawyers, was wrong and he is right. Arrogance has put our Town on the brink of death.
THAT PR#@$ WONT SHOW HIS FACE TO THAT MEETING I WOULD BET ON IT.........
I edited myself so the FCC wouldnt fine me..
Of course he won't show his face to the forum. He will not go to anything he does not control. He is having his own meet and greet candidate session Saturday Morning at the Savory grill. If any of you have balls you will show up and ask the real hard questions of Ralph and his slate.
I wonder which version of Ralph's "truth" he'll tell?
Why doesn't everyone in the community party go to the Savory Grill on Saturday. You can't complain that Ralph won't come to yours and then not go to his. Or is the Community Party all p$#@ys. Put your money where your moth is. I bet YOU don't show!
Last post,
Are you an idiot? Why the hell would a rival political party show up to another party's event? That would be stupid, did Ralph donate to the Community Party? The forum is a neutral evnet where the public will be able to ask the questions. Keep supporting ralph, the latest finance problems only reinforce what many have saying all along, that the public has been deceived, just much worse than anyone had anticipated.
Nice language from the anon poster who states that the Community Party should show up at Ralph's breakfast. Goes to show what low-lifes are backing Ralph! Can't believe you eat with that MOUTH (by the way- that's the correct spelling)...but then again, you ARE breaking bread with Ralph, right???
Hold the phone, the meet and greet thing at the Savory Grill is a public event right? Why not have the commUNITY Party show up there... seems like it would only help from my point of view.
How so???
How so? I'll address that:
By having the commUNITY Party show up at Ralph's meet and greet, we can ensure that their voice is represented at the meeting. Will it be fairly represented? Probably not, but if no one from commUNITY shows up, it WILL be damaging because Ralph's group WILL badmouth commUNITY and it will also send the message that commUNITY isn't reaching out to the community as much as they can. However, having moderate voices from the commUNITY Party there with fliers to hand out and a reasonable tone to answer questions will show that commUNITY is not a bunch of extremists and really has their act pretty well put together (not to mention in general being less petty than the Ralphites who certainly WON'T be represented at the OCEAN meeting).
Don't be surprised if Ralph does show up at the forum.
He's got to know how crappy it will look if he doesn't.
I hope he does, he has alot of explaining to do........I want answers on how he didn't know about the 8 million dollars the Village will control and about the truth behind if his running mate sued the town over something as silly as a street name.
HERE WE GO AGAIN ... SOUNDS LIKE YOU ALL ARE STARTING TO REALIZE THE OUTCOME OF THE VILLAGE ELECTION AND ARE HAVING TROUBLE DEALING WITH IT.... GO BACK TO SLEEP AND YOU WILL FEEL BETTER AFTER THE ELECTION WHEN THINGS ARE JUST FINE.
SAME OLD STORY FROM THE SAME OLD PEOPLE!!!!! I can't even read all 31 comments because your not even trying to make sense. Your are yelling FIRE in a crowded movie theatre. And for what purpose? This is not the first village and it won't be the last. Stop.
Ralph,
I'll try one more time because you still don't get it (big surprise).
This is the first and only non-coterminous town in New York State with no unincorporated land.
That has significant tax ramifications.
I know that you don't want people to know that.
It remains a fact.
Uncle Betty, can you elaborate on your latest comment? I'm afraid I'm not completely versed in all the legal specifics of our situation, but what you said sounds really relevant.
Okay, O.
A coterminous town/village occurs when a village is created in a town with EXACTLY the same borders as the town.
There are 5 coterminous town/ villages in NY (Scarsdale, Mount Kisco, Harrison, Green Island and East Rochester).
In a coterminous T/V the two governements (and their services) merge into one. There is a referendum to decide which form of government the citizens want (town or village).
And, because there is no duplication of services, there is no increased tax burden.
All other towns in NY contain either, no villages, one village or a number of villages AND (This is the important part) unincorporated land (land that is not in any village).
That is, all other towns except Woodbury. Woodbury conatins a tiny piece of Harriman and all the rest of the town is in the new Village of Woodbury. There is NO unincorporated land.
That's because the people who created the petition for the new village did a quick and dirty. They included part of Harriman State Park, they included part of West Point, they included everything there was besides Harriman.
And that's the problem.
According to article 17 of NYS Village Law, 7/12ths of all property tax revenue coming to the town must be turned over to the village.
And according to NYS Tax law (tax law 1262, sub c) all sales tax revenue is to be divided up proprtionally between the town and its villages (either by real property value, or, as in Orange County, by percentage of population).
In Monroe the sales tax revenue due to the town as a whole is divided up between the villages of Monroe, KJ and Harriman and the town itself based on the percentage of the town's total population which resides in each village and in the unincorporated part of Monroe.
Because the Town of Woodbury now has NO UNINCORPORTAED LAND, the town gets none of the sales tax (and mortgage tax I do believe) revenue.
This leaves the town up the creek and bereft of paddles.
There will be perhaps a number of months to sort this out, but, on its own, the Town of Woodbury will not be able to afford its current services.
That means that the idea of the village contracting town services for $1 is dead on arrival.
Now, the village can contract for town services at true cost. If the town police department costs $2 million to run, the town could charge the village $2 million and supply the police. This is a pretty good deal, considering that it is widely recognized that Woodbury has one of the best deprtments in the state (for a town of its size).
But, let's say someone gets elected mayor who doesn't want to spend $2 million for a great police deprtment. Let's say he want to spend $200,000 for a really crappy police department and turn over most of the job to the State Troopers. All he has to do is tell the town that he's not interested in their police deprtment, and the town won't be able to pay it's cops and bye bye Woodbury Police.
But who in his right mind would do away with a truely great, professional police department?
Ask Ralph. That's what he proposed doing 22 years ago during his one and only stint on the town board.
Is that enough info?
sorry "proportionally"
The true fact of the matter is that NO ONE knows how this sham will play out. The Town government didn't know, and never investigated. Mr. Burke, the chief fiscal officer who doesn't even know the first thing about creating a budget never even bothered to ask. But, perhaps this was the big scheme...Ralph's back-up plan. If he didn't beat Mrs. Donnery, he backed John so that if he was in place as Supervisor, John would help him get elected as Mayor. Seems to fit right in with Ralph the Manipulator. And, along the same lines, for those of you who think a tiger changes his stripes, NOT...Mr. Mike A has definitely NOT cut the apron strings with Ralph...in fact, it may be worth everyone's attention to look at Mr. Aronowitz a little closer. He's been talking out of both sides of his mouth, and sooner of later the good people of this community will put him into check. It would be wise for all to remember that Ralph is an old master at this game, and ALWAYS has a plan, and a way out. Most people would have settled back into anonymity after being defeated by the same WOMAN twice...but not Ralph...he's too much of a self-absorbed dictator to stand for that. And so frends, we must again rise to the challenge and send Ralph packing at the polls.
FRIENDS...sorry about the typo, I know how testy you guys get about that.
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